Alter Calls

[paul wassona]

Well, let me start with a response to Allan's post #76.

If I accept your definition of terms, then I suppose I could accept your conclusion. I can see how you came to hold that prayer is necessary.

However, this does not square with what happened to me at my conversion. My expression of repentance and my trust in Christ for salvation was made to my pastor in response to direct questions.

When I arrived at the front of the auditorium (yes, during an invitation) the conversation went along these lines:

Pastor: Why did you come?
Tom: Because I'm lost and I want to be saved.
Pastor: Do you understand that you are a sinner and that the penalty for sin is hell?
Tom: Yes
Pastor; Do you repent of your sin? Are you sorry for your sin?
Tom: Yes
Pastor Are you willing to trust Christ and him alone for your salvation?
Tom: Yes
Pastor: Sit down over there.

Now this was not a matter-of-fact-conversation. I was quite emotional. I was crying I was, in fact, scared to death, because the Holy Spirit had brought me under conviction a minute or so earlier. He showed my my sin, my sinfulness and the consequences.

The point is, I responded to the pastor's questions. When I said "I want to be saved," all he had to do was say "well, ask God to save you." He didn't do that

Maybe my experience can fit into your definition of praying, Allan. But today's modern soul-winning requires a specific prayer from the lost person. I didn't do that, and that's why I said I didn't pray.

Hi Tom, Now I have to ask, does your salvation "experience" depend upon the answers you gave to your pastor? And what happened after you went and sat "over there"?

It almost seems the very thing you denounced as "coming forward" and shaking hands with the preacher are equal to getting saved?

 

[paul wassona]

738 PROFESSIONS OF FAITH AND 25 BAPTISMS (Friday Church News Notes, January 29, 2010, www.wayoflife.org fbns@wayoflife.org, 866-295-4143) - The following is excerpted and slightly adapted from The Technique Catastrophe: An Explanation of the Multitudes of False Professions in the Independent Baptist Movement by Bob Creel (865-712-4537): “When numbers become so important to us that they outweigh the truth, it’s time that we admit to a crisis! When we receive missionary reports similar to the one recently sent to the church where I am now attending, it’s time we take stock of our methodology. This missionary brother was rejoicing over the results that he had experienced in his first full year on the mission field. He boasted of 738 professions of faith with 25 following in believer’s baptism. How could you even pen those words without asking yourself if there isn’t something wrong with that picture? I seem to remember 3,000 saved at Pentecost, and 3,000 baptized! The most refreshing missionary that I have heard in a long time gave his update to our church recently. He has been in Poland for 14 years and to date knows of only five people who have been saved under his ministry. Just like at Pentecost, he only counts the ones who have been saved, baptized, and are in the church. Most of our ‘one, two, three, pray after me’ fellows would have dropped his support a long time ago! Myself, I would drop the guy with 738 saved and 25 baptized and shift the support to the fellow from Poland!”

thought this might go along with this topic. Seems a lack of an altar might contribute to this tragedy.

 

[Tom Butler]

Hi Tom, Now I have to ask, does your salvation "experience" depend upon the answers you gave to your pastor? And what happened after you went and sat "over there"?

It almost seems the very thing you denounced as "coming forward" and shaking hands with the preacher are equal to getting saved?

The simple word "yes" in response to Pastor Ralph Kerley's questions was a reflection of what was in my heart. I was basically confessing with my mouth Jesus as Lord. But I was believing in my heart.

I have not denounced the use of invitations. I have denounced the abuse and manipulation I have seen employed in some of them. Nor do I question the sincerity of those who misuse the invitation. I believe they are doing what they have been taught is right.

When a preacher says "come to Christ," meaning walk the aisle, he is sending the wrong message. He is being imprecise in his language, or to say it differently, he is sounding an uncertain trumpet.

When someone's salvation testimony is "I went forward," or "I said the prayer," frankly I cringe. When I hear someone say "here's what I DID to get saved," I cringe. It's as if repent and trust Christ are not quite good enough any more.

 

[Allan]

When I hear someone say "here's what I DID to get saved," I cringe. It's as if repent and trust Christ are not quite good enough any more.

But Tom, that is what you did, and I and every other child of God.
We DID repent and believe and thus it is proper to state "here's what I did to get/be saved".
You know as well as I do that repenting and believing is not something that passively happens, yet what I am getting at is that your wording can be, at times, just as imprecise as well.

You can not have salvation without 'you' being involved.
Remember, salvation can not be spelled with an "I" in it, ableit the 'i' doesn't determine the meaning of the word, it's usage, nor it's power. It is just that without the 'i' you can not have salvat'i'on. :laugh: - Ok, I know, bad joke.. but it is late and I am completely bored out of my mind because I can't sleep.

 

[Tom Butler]

Allan, thanks for the feedback. I certainly don't want to be imprecise. And I don't want to leave the impression that that I was passive and uninvolved in the salvation process.

Sorry you were having trouble sleeping. I'm glad I was able to alleviate the boredom briefly, at least.

 

[Bob Alkire]

I was brought up in a Presbyterian church that was strong Calvinistic teaching. I never saw an alter call growing up, was taught if you were to be saved (elect) you would be and all the non elect were going to hell, you had no say in the matter, so don't worry about it. A dead man can't accept or reject so man has no say so in the matter.

By the time I finished seminary I had left the theology that I was brought up on. I like alter calls, but from my experience, very few come to Christ in the service. I came to salvation driving down the highway listen to a radio preacher, pulled over and had a talk with God and ask for his forgiveness to a sinner like I was. Then I went forward later at an alter call, to let others know what God had worked in me.

 

[Jerome]

"I have known all the doctrines of grace to be unmistakably preached, and yet there have been no conversions; for this reason, that they were not expected and scarcely desired. In former years many orthodox preachers thought it to be their sole duty to comfort and confirm the godly few who by dint of great perseverance found out the holes and corners in which they prophesied. These brethren spoke of sinners as of people whom God might possibly gather in if he thought fit to do so; but they did not care much whether he did so or not. As to weeping over sinners as Christ wept over Jerusalem; as to venturing to invite them to Christ as the Lord did when he stretched out his hands all the day long; as to lamenting with Jeremiah over a perishing people, they had no sympathy with such emotions, and feared that they savoured of Arminianism." ---Charles Spurgeon, Without Christ—Nothing

 

[paul wassona]

"I have known all the doctrines of grace to be unmistakably preached, and yet there have been no conversions; for this reason, that they were not expected and scarcely desired. In former years many orthodox preachers thought it to be their sole duty to comfort and confirm the godly few who by dint of great perseverance found out the holes and corners in which they prophesied. These brethren spoke of sinners as of people whom God might possibly gather in if he thought fit to do so; but they did not care much whether he did so or not. As to weeping over sinners as Christ wept over Jerusalem; as to venturing to invite them to Christ as the Lord did when he stretched out his hands all the day long; as to lamenting with Jeremiah over a perishing people, they had no sympathy with such emotions, and feared that they savoured of Arminianism." ---Charles Spurgeon, Without Christ—Nothing

I remember the preacher weeping over a lost daddy and that is what got to me the most. I went home that night LOST. A couple of days later I couldn't get away from the weeping preacher and the invitation to come to Christ. I got saved that night at home!

Thank YOU Lord for an altar call!

 

[Robert Snow]

I do not believe altar calls should be practiced.

What a silly thing to say, are you sure you are a Baptist? :laugh:

I can see it now. You finish preaching and tell the congregation, "If anyone here would like to accept what Jesus Christ did for them on the cross. Please do it where you are standing, or talk to me later in the foyer. Above all, don't come down to the front, you might think that the act of coming forward is what actually saved you."

 

[Tom Butler]

What a silly thing to say, are you sure you are a Baptist? :laugh:

I can see it now. You finish preaching and tell the congregation, "If anyone here would like to accept what Jesus Christ did for them on the cross. Please do it where you are standing, or talk to me later in the foyer. Above all, don't come down to the front, you might think that the act of coming forward is what actually saved you."

Actually, with a little tinkering, this could be turned into a quite suitable exhortation.

 

[paul wassona]

Jesus gave an altar call to Jerusalem and to whosoever will.