Am I living in Sin?

[Irwin Hawkins]

I was not going to post a reply to this thread, but changed my mind because I was licensed, and ordained in the SBC "after" I was devorced. I have been living alone ever since which has been 23 years.

irwin

 

[Bro.Bill]

I thought Paul was an Apostle and missionary and not a pastor. Am I wrong?

 

[pastor joe]

sorry,i dont get the connection.how does what paul said to the church have anything to do with his calling?

 

[Shammai]

Matthew 5:31-32 KJV
31: It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:3-9 KJV
3: The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4: And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5: And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6: Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7: They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8: He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9: And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Mark 10:2-12 KJV
2: And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
3: And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
4: And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
5: And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
6: But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7: For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8: And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9: What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
10: And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
11: And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12: And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Please understand, I'm just quoting the scripture...

 

[pastor joe]

please explain your point,and what it has to do with what paul said. thanks joe

 

[Shammai]

Sorry, I meant to quote the original post.

As I read the initial post, it read as a multiple part question. While the second part was well addressed on this thread, I was responding to his query

Are We Living in Sin or Am I living right and her wrong.Or Am I sinning For Marrying A Divorcee?

 

[Sularis]

Hey Im on a hard-core conservative on this issue!!

WOO HOO!

thats a new feeling for me

Sorry man - yer living in sin - unless her ex-husbands are dead - and that disqualifies you as being completely free of reproach. Since the pastor is to be free of reproach from the unbelievers viewpoint of Christianity as well; so as to not put the church into shame

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by freeatlast:
[First the scriptures are clear that the man who desires the office of bishop (pastor,deacon, or equal) is to be a one woman man. The wives of such are to have the same distinction in character.
It sounds to me that you are disqualified by your wife's prior actions.

Why should past actions affect present character?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[Irwin Hawkins]

As far as I can tell GOD is still in the buisness of forgiving sin, and making ministers out of those who have confessed their sin, repented of it excepted Jesus Christ as their LORD, and Savior, and are living their life for him. GOD in His Holy word tells us that all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of GOD. Even the apostle Paul from whose writings we get the qualifications for being a Shepherd of the flock says of himself that he "was' the cheif of all sinners, because he went about trying to destroy the church. What is in the past is past; the kind of life you have with the LORD now is what counts.
With the love Jesus Christ gave me,
irwin

 

[Sspinko52]

Hey,what about the guys who commit adultery in their hearts? This is a sticky topic...but no one ever brings up sin in the heart. The heart is where sin is stirred up. I'm just curious about the guys who commit adultery in their hearts. No one ever disqualifies these guys. The only ones disqualified are the guys who do it outwardly. What's up with that? Jesus said whoever looks upon a woman with lust in his heart has already committed adultery with her. I'm curious to the thoughts of some of you out there. The word also says that man looks on the outward appearance, but that God looks at the heart. Any takers on this one?

 

[Shammai]

Originally posted by Sspinko52:
Hey,what about the guys who commit adultery in their hearts? This is a sticky topic...but no one ever brings up sin in the heart. The heart is where sin is stirred up. I'm just curious about the guys who commit adultery in their hearts. No one ever disqualifies these guys. The only ones disqualified are the guys who do it outwardly. What's up with that? Jesus said whoever looks upon a woman with lust in his heart has already committed adultery with her. I'm curious to the thoughts of some of you out there. The word also says that man looks on the outward appearance, but that God looks at the heart. Any takers on this one?

Jeremiah 17:9-10 KJV
9: The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10: I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

 

[Deborah B.]

I believe to truely repent you must turn away from ALL sin. If you lust in your heart, you must turn away from that and trust in Jesus. You cannot continue to doing the same sin over and over again. We must move forward. Sure we all might take a step back every so often, but we have to repent and make sure we are taking two, three, or more steps forward to becoming like Him! We must grow in our faith and produce fruit, not wither.

As far as marriage, is it not true that the Bible says that fornication and adultery are the only spiritual grounds for divorce, but that person is not to remarry unless the first spouse dies? If that is the case, then wouldn't a remarriage be a sin if the first spouse is still living? Yes? Okay, so a remarriage is a sin to both individuals involved. They are not married in God's eyes because the first marriage has not been severed because he/she is still living. Ron, I believe that our gracious Lord Jesus does and will forgive your "legal" wife if you or she legally ends your marriage and she does not remarry unless her first husband dies. As far as you (Ron), God's grace extends to you too. But remember, we must repent, and to repent is to turn away from sin. Your marriage is not a marriage in God's eyes, it is an ongoing sin. That sin be turned away from as all other sins are. We cannot bring sin into Heaven. This is God's law. You can ask for forgiveness today and our gracious Lord will forgive, but tommorow you will still be married to her....hence the ongoing sin. According to my understanding, you (Ron) have never been married in God's eyes, so you are free to marry a woman who has never been married or is a widow as long as you repent from this sin. Only then would your marriage be a blessing in God's eyes as long as you seek His guidance and blessing. Don't let your human selfish desires or the world's acceptance of divorce fool you. I know it is a really tough decision, but do you want to be truely obedient to Christ? Seek Him, and He will show you the way!

I know that these teachings of scripture are not common practice in today's church. I know you can go to the next guy down the road and find an answer that is easier and makes 'more sense' in todays world and to you. But we as Kingdom Christians must avoid the wisdom of this world and lean on the whole council of Christ. Only in Him will we find truth and life everlasting.

Peace to you as you seek and knock and ask. He will answer you, only be willing to say ' yes Lord'...

Here are some links if you would like to get some other views.

http://www.tertullian.org/anf/anf04/anf04-17.htm#P1114_288165

http://truthseekers.8m.com/DOCTRINE/divorce.htmL

Because of Christ,
Deborah

 

[El_Guero]

Everyone,

Why would it make a difference if a sin was commited before the Salvation event? I keep reading this and I am curious. Is the Blood more effective at salvation? Is during baptism?

Wayne

 

[El_Guero]

Mea culpa

Is it more effective during baptism ...

 

[MTA]

Originally posted by El_Guero:
Everyone,

Why would it make a difference if a sin was commited before the Salvation event? I keep reading this and I am curious. Is the Blood more effective at salvation? Is during baptism?

Wayne

If the person did something categorized as sinful prior to his conversion, it would be the same as Paul's persecution of the Christians and the Church done through his unbelief. Paul was forgiven of those offences when he was saved.

However, I fail to understand why anyone comes to a public forum to ask if he or she is living in sin and as a background to that question, volunteers very private information regarding themselves and their spouse. Although I submit that most responders do attempt to provide good counsel, it is obvious the responses cover a wide spectrum of possibilities.

I agree that a man should not be ordained that has suffered divorce, but only because the divorce cripples him for the full work of the ministry in a pastor's capacity. The emotional wound never heals, regardless of who initiates the divorce, and it forever changes the person. That man can never stand unblemished before his congregation and although he might in every other way be fit for the office, this is enough to tarnish his reputation and potentially the reputation of the church. It is the church's reputation that is most important to defend here.

This situation is somewhat different because this man has not been divorced, but his wife has been. Consequently, being blameless and having a good report might be questioned. Regardless, this line of questioning only pertains to the man that desires the office of a bishop.

It is up to his church to determine whether to license him to preach or not. If God has truly called him to preach, the way will be provided for him to exercise that calling. But regardless, his question should be asked and answered by his church.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by El_Guero:
Why would it make a difference if a sin was commited before the Salvation event? I keep reading this and I am curious.

I don't think that one's state of salvation makes any difference in regards to whether a sin is a sin. The only thing that differs is whether one must pay the price for the sin upon death. Those who are saved have had that price paid, but we still gotta live by the consequences of our sin while on earth.

 

[av1611jim]

I have been divorced.
My wife also has been divorced.
I have been called to preach.
I preach in the prisons.
Moral of the story?
There are many, many different ways you can fulfill the call of God without bringing reproach upon the pure testimony of the church.
As a preacher, I preach the gospel. I do not fulfill many pastoral duties as outlined in Paul's pastoral epistles.
As a pastor, one is called to much more than preaching.
Please do not read into this post what is NOT there.
In His service;
Jim

 

[Plain ol' Ralph]

In the example set forth in the life of Cain, we find that God gave him a mark, it was then by choice that Cain departed from the presence of God.

Departing from the presence of God is man's sole choice, marrying a divorcee is a matter of choice.

God's mandate is set before us, we either choose to obey Him, or choose to make our own way, thus depaerting is in the negative due to our poor choice.

The "mark" received due to divorce can be coped with, but it is our choice then to stay with God or to make ourselves the authority in such matters.

Go in the way of Cain?

Go opposite to the way of Cain.

You decide, God still wants you near, not going to the land of Nod for your choice.

 

[MTA]

There are many, many different ways you can fulfill the call of God without bringing reproach upon the pure testimony of the church.
As a preacher, I preach the gospel. I do not fulfill many pastoral duties as outlined in Paul's pastoral epistles.
As a pastor, one is called to much more than preaching.

AV1611jim:

I agree with you completely. I too have been divorced and, like you, I am a God-called preacher, but I do not pretend that I could be or should be ordained as a pastor. I have filled appointments on Sunday and Wednesday evenings and helped in revival efforts. I have also taught Sunday school and Bible studies. There is plenty of work for the minister outside of pastoring a church.

 

[av1611jim]

MTA;
Ain't that the way we Baptists are?
Disagree in one thread. Agree in another.
Thank God for liberty.

In His service;
Jim