Am I Now IFB?

[Steven Yeadon]

I need some help identifying where I sit in terms of Baptist doctrine.

I have been spending my free time debating apologetics, bible, and doctrine for a year on an apologetical Facebook group. My views on doctrine have changed as a result, as I have delved deeper and deeper into the Word. I want to know where I am on the Baptist spectrum of doctrine. I think I am now in line with independent fundamental Baptists, but I'm not sure. My old SBC church was definitely unhappy with my current doctrine and thought me too much like the IFB.

The big thing is I gave up believing "once saved, always saved" as I delved into the Word. I believe unrepentant sin on our part can lead to apostasy and if that is unrepentant, hell. I know free will Baptists are the same, but I was told IFB are that way too by a deacon at my old SBC church.

I prefer the NASB and Interlinear now, and I am strongly against very "thought-for-thought" translations like the Message.

I want nothing to do with Rick Warren and similar Seeker Driven programs or teachings. The reason is complicated but has to do with what I perceive as giving into the culture of the world.

I believe women should not preach, teach, or hold authority in church except over children and other women.

I hold to God's foreknowledge and predestination of people to the faith, but I believe God wants all saved and that this paradox is alright because God's ways are so much higher than our comprehension.

I hate Charismatic Influence and want none of it in church.

I believe very strongly in church discipline.

I am not dispensationalist.

 

[Revmitchell]

IFB's are osas. Freewills believe you can lose your salvation

 

[Yeshua1]

I need some help identifying where I sit in terms of Baptist doctrine.

I have been spending my free time debating apologetics, bible, and doctrine for a year on an apologetical Facebook group. My views on doctrine have changed as a result, as I have delved deeper and deeper into the Word. I want to know where I am on the Baptist spectrum of doctrine. I think I am now in line with independent fundamental Baptists, but I'm not sure. My old SBC church was definitely unhappy with my current doctrine and thought me too much like the IFB.

The big thing is I gave up believing "once saved, always saved" as I delved into the Word. I believe unrepentant sin on our part can lead to apostasy and if that is unrepentant, hell. I know free will Baptists are the same, but I was told IFB are that way too by a deacon at my old SBC church.

I prefer the NASB and Interlinear now, and I am strongly against very "thought-for-thought" translations like the Message.

I want nothing to do with Rick Warren and similar Seeker Driven programs or teachings. The reason is complicated but has to do with what I perceive as giving into the culture of the world.

I believe women should not preach, teach, or hold authority in church except over children and other women.

I hold to God's foreknowledge and predestination of people to the faith, but I believe God wants all saved and that this paradox is alright because God's ways are so much higher than our comprehension.

I hate Charismatic Influence and want none of it in church.

I believe very strongly in church discipline.

I am not dispensationalist.

All of us will have some degree of sin problem areas until we get glorified though!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

It seems to me that this deacon has a limited knowledge of the IFB sector of the Baptist galaxy.

but I was told IFB are that way too by a deacon at my old SBC church.

 

[Shoostie]

"The New IFB" website lists these as their doctrines:
*FAITH ALONE FOR SALVATION
*ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED
*KING JAMES BIBLE ONLY
*TRINITY
*SOUL-WINNING
*HARD PREACHING
*ANTI-WORLDLINESS
*ANTI-CALVINISM
*ANTI-DISPENSATIONAL
*ANTI-ZIONISM
*POST-TRIB PRE-WRATH RAPTURE

 

[Rob_BW]

"The New IFB" website lists these as their doctrines:
*FAITH ALONE FOR SALVATION
*ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED
*KING JAMES BIBLE ONLY
*TRINITY
*SOUL-WINNING
*HARD PREACHING
*ANTI-WORLDLINESS
*ANTI-CALVINISM
*ANTI-DISPENSATIONAL
*ANTI-ZIONISM
*POST-TRIB PRE-WRATH RAPTURE

I don’t imagine that Steve Anderson speaks for all IFB.

 

[StefanM]

IFB's are osas. Freewills believe you can lose your salvation

That's what I've always encountered.

From what I've seen, belief in the possibility of losing one's salvation is most definitely a demarcation between Freewill Baptists and most other Baptists.

Among evangelicals, if a church is not charismatic, believes you can lose your salvation, and only baptizes by immersion, in general it's either a Church of Christ congregation or a Freewill Baptist (or sometimes"General Baptist") congregation. Then it's a matter of baptismal regeneration. If they believe it, it's a CoC church. If not, it's a FWB church.

If a church is charismatic and believes you can lose your salvation and only baptizes by immersion, it's generally a Pentecostal (or functionally equivalent church, such as the Assemblies of God).

If a church practices paedobaptism, then it can be within a range of Wesleyan/Methodist, "holiness" churches, and some other similar congregations, all of which can vary in their level of acceptance of charismatic elements.

(This is in no way comprehensive, and I'm sure each individual church can vary. I apologize if I've mischaracterized any church mentioned.)

 

[Yeshua1]

I need some help identifying where I sit in terms of Baptist doctrine.

I have been spending my free time debating apologetics, bible, and doctrine for a year on an apologetical Facebook group. My views on doctrine have changed as a result, as I have delved deeper and deeper into the Word. I want to know where I am on the Baptist spectrum of doctrine. I think I am now in line with independent fundamental Baptists, but I'm not sure. My old SBC church was definitely unhappy with my current doctrine and thought me too much like the IFB.

The big thing is I gave up believing "once saved, always saved" as I delved into the Word. I believe unrepentant sin on our part can lead to apostasy and if that is unrepentant, hell. I know free will Baptists are the same, but I was told IFB are that way too by a deacon at my old SBC church.

I prefer the NASB and Interlinear now, and I am strongly against very "thought-for-thought" translations like the Message.

I want nothing to do with Rick Warren and similar Seeker Driven programs or teachings. The reason is complicated but has to do with what I perceive as giving into the culture of the world.

I believe women should not preach, teach, or hold authority in church except over children and other women.

I hold to God's foreknowledge and predestination of people to the faith, but I believe God wants all saved and that this paradox is alright because God's ways are so much higher than our comprehension.

I hate Charismatic Influence and want none of it in church.

I believe very strongly in church discipline.

I am not dispensationalist.

Jesus held to eternal security of the truly saved, so we must also!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Jesus held to eternal security of the truly saved, so we must also!

I must disagree, since there are many warnings about apostasy in scripture. Nearly every new testament book has at least one such warning. Jesus issues several warnings Himself about apostasy and a hell for Christians that did not love Him by obeying His commands.

 

[Yeshua1]

I must disagree, since there are many warnings about apostasy in scripture. Nearly every new testament book has at least one such warning. Jesus issues several warnings Himself about apostasy and a hell for Christians that did not love Him by obeying His commands.

Not ONE passage refers though to the really saved, but to those merely professing to be such!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Not ONE passage refers though to the really saved, but to those merely professing to be such!

From a Calvinistic stance, yes any not faithful unto death were always meant for hell. I believe in the capacity to make choices against God's will. This leads to the conclusion people chose to respond to the Gospel, but can choose apostasy against the will of God.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Based on John 10:28-29 along withy other passages, I believe the Bible shows the security of the believer. Holding that we can, by our own actions, lose our salvation seems to infer that our sin is more powerful than Jesus' sacrifice.

 

[37818]

The big thing is I gave up believing "once saved, always saved" as I delved into the Word.

John 6:37
John 6:39
John 10:28
1 John 5:12-13
Hebrews 10:17
Hebrews 10:39
Hebrews 13:5
Revelation 3:5

To list a few OSAS references.

Every verse used to show saved and then lost does not explicitly teach such. It is interpreted into the text.

I was won to Christ in an independend fundamental baptist church in 1962.

Now Free Will Baptists do not teach OSAS, as far as I know.

 

[poor-in-spirit]

I have been spending my free time debating apologetics, bible, and doctrine for a year on an apologetical Facebook group. My views on doctrine have changed as a result, as I have delved deeper and deeper into the Word. I want to know where I am on the Baptist spectrum of doctrine. I think I am now in line with independent fundamental Baptists, but I'm not sure. My old SBC church was definitely unhappy with my current doctrine and thought me too much like the IFB.

Brother, please consider that perhaps it is not a question of OSAS at all.

Most who firmly believe they are saved were intellectually & repetitiously brainwashed into believing it by men and not the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in Contextual Scripture does God say even one time that a profession of belief results in instantaneous, everlasting life. Men declare each other saved these days but it is all by satan's careful design. Where did this ever happen in Scripture? Only Jesus ever made such declarations. His Apostles never gave those assurances. Not like Jesus did.
Why? because the Apostles could never see their hearts friend.

This is the most clever of all the apostasies. As in Noah's day, the number of truly born-again is shrinking rapidly. Satan has successfully infiltrated every sect and denomination now so that none preach the Gospel in the Gospels. These are weed factories and not the churches of the New Testament. I am including most if not all the "camps" within the IFB circles.

The Spirit bears no witness with their spirits. They have simply been convinced in their heads that they were born again via plucked out and isolated passages in the NT Epistles. Completely ignoring what Christ Himself taught on the new birth and evidence of it. You see, the cheap "gospel" preached counted all costs for them. Only one place in Scripture describes the event we refer to as the new birth and the vast majority of last days "christians" have no concept of it.

Typically when people claim they have studied out God's Word on a matter, admit in the same context as you just did that they study through other men's lenses. Why because their new desire to study a matter out was initiated by a new set of men's wisdom of words.

You may need a completely fresh perspective that only God's Word and Spirit can give you without adulteration by men. Check this out: Bread of Life

Speaking of IFBs, perhaps you should read this testimony: 30 years of tare

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Ok, I learned in apologetics a lesson. Let's describe what we mean by "apostate" and "saved."

I view those that deny the faith when faced with persecution and those that let love of this world make them useless Christians as being apostates.

They were saved by accepting the Gospel and they later choose to trodden the blood and deny the Cross. By "saved" I mean they believe in Jesus with a mustard seed of faith.

Those two tests of denying the faith out of fear or pain and being useless due to sin are what I mean about apostate. The key is that most agree with me on what an apostate is and disagree on whether they were ever saved.

A further breakdown of this would be best for the Arminianism vs Calvinism board.

 

[Shoostie]

I don’t imagine that Steve Anderson speaks for all IFB.

Maybe not all, but he speaks for roughly 30 congregations that are members of the New IFB. Some of those doctrines are how I define an IFB church. Except, most other IFB churches seem to be zionist/dispensationalist.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Brother, please consider that perhaps it is not a question of OSAS at all.

Most who firmly believe they are saved were intellectually & repetitiously brainwashed into believing it by men and not the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in Contextual Scripture does God say even one time that a profession of belief results in instantaneous, everlasting life. Men declare each other saved these days but it is all by satan's careful design. Where did this ever happen in Scripture? Only Jesus ever made such declarations. His Apostles never gave those assurances. Not like Jesus did.
Why? because the Apostles could never see their hearts friend.

This is the most clever of all the apostasies. As in Noah's day, the number of truly born-again is shrinking rapidly. Satan has successfully infiltrated every sect and denomination now so that none preach the Gospel in the Gospels. These are weed factories and not the churches of the New Testament. I am including most if not all the "camps" within the IFB circles.

The Spirit bears no witness with their spirits. They have simply been convinced in their heads that they were born again via plucked out and isolated passages in the NT Epistles. Completely ignoring what Christ Himself taught on the new birth and evidence of it. You see, the cheap "gospel" preached counted all costs for them. Only one place in Scripture describes the event we refer to as the new birth and the vast majority of last days "christians" have no concept of it.

Typically when people claim they have studied out God's Word on a matter, admit in the same context as you just did that they study through other men's lenses. Why because their new desire to study a matter out was initiated by a new set of men's wisdom of words.

You may need a completely fresh perspective that only God's Word and Spirit can give you without adulteration by men. Check this out: Bread of Life

Speaking of IFBs, perhaps you should read this testimony: 30 years of tare

I kind of get what you are saying. I often wonder at how many who claim Christian love this world more than Jesus Christ and their neighbors.

My story leads me to believe I had faith in Jesus Christ as an apostate myself. First let me share my story of coming back to Jesus Christ.

I was lost in sin for 10 years after coming to a mustard seed of faith out of Deism in early college, I would have called it atheism back then but that was dishonest of me to do. I became a Christian and was doing great for several months, reading the Word, growing in a southern baptist church, learning to avoid going against my conscience, being vocal about my faith at college.

However, 9 months after becoming a Christian I made the worst decision of my life and became a Charismatic. Three and a half years ago I came to a much deeper point of faith. I was losing any vestige of faith rapidly at that point as the number of years of torment due to illnesses added up with no relent in sight.

I read 1 Corinthians 15 and realized I didn't look forward to the resurrection since I was an apostate doomed at the Judgment. I was going against my conscience out of habit, I was a liberal Christian in a liberal seminary studying to be a liberal pastor (despite starting as a southern baptist), I was a false prophet because I had the "gift of prophecy" and was so in my heart and to those that would listen, I was a false teacher, and I preached a false Gospel that hated anything to do with childlike faith in Jesus Christ. I argued that faith was wrong and that what we could not prove should be ignored in Christianity. I came to the conclusion I was damned, and felt tremendous conviction from that point forward until I put faith back in the Word, to include Jesus Christ.

I struggled with self-righteousness for a month, thinking I was good and deserved heaven despite growing conviction otherwise. After a month of stark raving mad terror at death and what I faced, I allowed myself to accept my doubts in Jesus Christ and His Word one night and chose to have faith again, without going purely on what I could prove.

Wow, I changed fast as I abandoned sin after sin and realized that I had to go back to a conservative faith. I studied the bible carefully, putting it into practice. However, Charismatic influence would be my final hill to die on it seems. I am still tempted to go back to Charismaticism, and I am still finding things to abandon that I was so used to.

That said, how do I know I am saved? Because I love Jesus Christ by obeying Him (John 14:15 and this is the key point of 1 John). Because He disciplines and rebukes me from my errors (Hebrews 12:4-17). My belief is that if I stay in Jesus Christ, keep the Faith, run my race of faith, make every effort to obey Him, then He will reward me for my faith that is alive with good fruit.

Perhaps I am seeing things from the day to day instead of eternity, which most people here seem to be doing.

 

[37818]

@Steven Yeadon,

Take look at the promise from Jeremiah 31:34 as quoted in Hebrews 10:17, ". . . And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. . . ." That "no" means "never." That promise the forgiveness once given and received is full and complete. And with it comes another promise to also cleanse us from all our unrightousmess. See 1 John 1:7-10; 1 John 2:1-2. All we need to do is agree with God regarding our sin. God does for us what we cannot do ourselves. 1 John 1:9. 1 John 2:1; Hebrews 9:24; 1 Timothy 2:5-6. Great news. It the gift we have in Christ, Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9. Hebrews 10:17.

 

[Rob_BW]

Maybe not all, but he speaks for roughly 30 congregations that are members of the New IFB. Some of those doctrines are how I define an IFB church. Except, most other IFB churches seem to be zionist/dispensationalist.

I had to google up New IFB, I was unaware that was the moniker he was using.

 

[Reformed1689]

I believe in the capacity to make choices against God's will.

So we are more powerful than God?