Featured amil vs pre-trib- pre-mil

Pre-trib, in my opinion is the most difficult to reconcile. Mid-trib a little easier..... However, post trib, just makes more since to me.

I dont think many people will have issue with your pre-mill stance. Amill's usually dont get too worked up about the millennium. Now pre-trib .....that will get them going.

 

That is true. I just find it instresting that pre-tribbers will spend a lot of time defending the pre-mill view and then say that proves the pre-trib view when they are not one in the same. And then when called on it they double down on proving pre-mill view.

 

And so is MacArthur
https://youtu.be/-3TRADV6m8k

 

But he is not on this Forum. I know he can't be, I better let that pass!:tonofbricks:

 

Haha

I was shocked as well.
*He makes one of the strongest cases I have heard for pre-trib. However, he does so at the expense of the post-trib believers. He misrepresents their belief....which may be unintentional. Perhaps he is referring to something else.

 

Yeah him too...he would at least admit to be a leaky (inconsistent) dispensationalist.

 

My article on the Church Age Rapture and the Tribulation Rapture

Note: All Scripture quotations found in this article are from the text of the Authorized King James Version of the Bible.

The word "Rapture" is a Latin word meaning to "seize something", "snatch something", "transport something" or "suddenly by force". The word "Rapture" does not occur in the Bible, but it does describe a true Biblical event. The Rapture will include the living and dead believers in Jesus Christ.

John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

The Song of Solomon mentions Jesus Christ calling up His Bride(the Church), who is a Gentile according to 1:5.

Song of Solomon 2:10 "My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away."

There are two different Raptures and the two are different because one has a trump(Church Age Rapture) and the other a trumpet(Tribulation Rapture).

The Church trump is a sound that is made by a trumpet and is the voice of God sounding as a trumpet. The voice can sound like thunder to the unsaved(John 12:29). When the Church trump is heard, the sheep hear a voice calling them home(SoS 2:10, John 10:3-4).

1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

The Tribulation trumpet is the Angel's trumpet in Matthew 24:31 and Revelation 11. No voice is heard after the seventh trumpet blown by an angel. The only voices heard after the seventh trumpet announce that Jesus Christ is coming to reign on earth as King(Job 19, Daniel 2:35-45). Although, before the seventh trumpet there is a "great voice" that calls people up. This voice is heard near the end of the Tribulation and is directed towards Moses and Elijah.

Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

--

Church Age Rapture - This rapture occurs before the Tribulation because the Tribulation is called "the time of Jacob's trouble". The Church is Gentile, not Jewish. In 1 Thess. 4:18, Paul says to comfort saints with the words about the Rapture. There is no comfort when one thinks of going through the Tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

Revelation 4:1-2 is a type of the Church Age Rapture - John is a type of the Church because he is called the disciple "whom Jesus loved". The Church is Christ's beloved(Ephesians 1:6).

Revelation 4:1 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne."

--

Tribulation Rapture - This Rapture is primarily for the Jews/the elect (Isaiah 45:4, 65:9, 22; Daniel 7:18-27), but both Jewish and Gentile saints go up in this rapture (Rev. 7:9-12). Matthew 25 also mentions "virgins"(plural) that are to meet the Christ, while the Church is the "chaste virgin"(singular) that is to marry Christ(2 Cor. 11:2). Towards the end of the Tribulation the "elect" have requirements to see the appearance of the Tribulation Rapture. They have to be pure in heart, holy and watchful(Matthew 5:8, Hebrews 9:28, 12:14). In Revelation 14:16, Jesus is seated on a cloud during the Tribulation Rapture.

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

 

You can't be serious?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

The only thing I would say to this, McCree, is if you want to see amills who can get worked up about the millennium, then find a historically amill church that was split because of eschatological doctrine.

I attended one such church in which a few members decided to switch from amillennialism to pre-trib and pre-mill. There would have been no problem but that some of them took hold of a doctrine I had never seen before that claimed if you entered the great tribulation and survived you would be saved. There was no need for evangelism or the convicting power of God. Merely surviving the seven years would grant you entry into Heaven.

Needless to say, this push for their version of pretrib doctrine caused a great rift in the church.

 

Well, has I went on to say in the post you quoted from. The Pre-trib is what gets them. Your statement even seems to indicate Amill's have a bigger issue with the tribulation view than the millennium view.

I have heard that tribulation doctrine as well. There was a movie in the late 80's that portrayed that. I will Google it and see if I can find the name. It was less Biblical than "Noah" (Russell Crowe) was.

 

Making a distinction between the trump and trumpet as it relates to the Second Coming is ridiculous!

 

I think it is Darby's pre-trib with its "parenthesis" Church that gets most amillennials since the covenant/historic premillennials have the Biblical view of the Church!

 

KJVO + strange eschatology = a difference between trump and trumpet indicating 2 raptures... as if 1 wasn't bad enough!!!

 

You get a rapture! And you get a rapture! Everyone gets a rapture!

 

To say that the word "rapture" is not in the Bible is as accurate as to say the word "love" is not in the Bible. We commonly use "agape" for love. But what about "phileo" which expresses filial love, or a different aspect of love. That "love" is not "in the Bible," or the KJV or most Bibles. Therefore "love" is not in the Bible, according to you, because it is not translated accurately by words like phileo or for that fact eros.

What about rapture?
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Greek word for "caught up"

According to Thayer is "to snatch away,"

What is the verse in the Vulgate?
deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

The same word is: rapiemur.
Transliterated this is where our English word "rapture" comes from. It is in the Bible, in the Latin Vulgate from which it comes.

You can find more history of the word here:

http://mrmaranatha.hubpages.com/hub/RaptureChristian-Reality-or-a-Recent-Hoax

 

I have said numerous times that the false doctrine of the "parenthesis" Church was the out growth of the pre-trib-"snatching "away of the Church! I have not said that it was Darby's invention but it is the logical outcome of his seeing, in Isaiah 32, a Jewish dispensation following the Church age. He obviously had better than 20/20 vision to get that out of Isaiah 32, a special revelation I expect.

 

So the Church is going to be taken away by force whether they want to go or not! Very Interesting!

 

What do you think a resurrection is?
When the resurrection occurs do you think you will have a choice, or will you request the Lord that you can stay behind??