An honest critique Monsieurs.

[steaver]

Yes I did. Go reread what I said. God is holy we are not.

Yes, God is holy. The Scripture says we identify with God when we love ALL, even our enemies. You really have no way around this. You are trying to dismiss it. Declaring God is holy actually confirms it. God's very attribute of holiness is what causes Him to love everyone. God is love. You make the common mistake of misconstruing God's holy and just wrath on the unbelievers as being void of love. Let me ask you a question , when the wrath of a parent comes down on a disobedient child, is this a hateful wrath? God's love is perfect. God's wrath is always directed towards the sin, whether it be present or future as when He said Esau have I hated.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes, God is holy.

YES!! Never stated anything to the contrary.

The Scripture says we identify with God when we love ALL, even our enemies.

Before doing anything good or bad, God hated Esau. God hates Satan. God hates those who work iniquity(not iniquity per se, but them who perform iniquity). So God does not love everyone.

You really have no way around this.

Now trying to get around God's love. Just your mangled view of it.

You are trying to dismiss it.

Uhhhhh, no. Just your mangled views.

Declaring God is holy actually confirms it. God's very attribute of holiness is what causes Him to love everyone.

So in His holiness He also loves Satan and those angels who also fell? Those residing in hell, He loves them too? That sure sounds like love to me.

God is love.

Yes He is. But He is also a God of wrath, vengence, justice, too. All of these were satiated by Christ's propitious works of the cross. Those who Jesus died for will receive mercy and grace, and not vengence, wrath, and justice.

You make the common mistake of misconstruing God's holy and just wrath on the unbelievers as being void of love.

Your mangled version is the mistake, Monsieur. God pours out His love on the vessels of mercy, not the vessels of wrath. Study Romans 9. God pours out His wrath on the vessels of wrath. Again, study Romans 9.

Let me ask you a question,

Okay.

when the wrath of a parent comes down on a disobedient child, is this a hateful wrath?

God chastens His children Monsieur. He does not pour out wrath on them.

God's love is perfect.

YES!!!

God's wrath is always directed towards the sin,

Uhhhh, no. God's wrath is directed at, poured out on sinners.

whether it be present or future as when He said Esau have I hated.

Before one good or bad act, God hated Esau. He hated Him because He was not a chosen sheep. God's love is poured out on His sheep. His wrath is poured out upon the goats.

 

[steaver]

Before doing anything good or bad, God hated Esau. God hates Satan. God hates those who work iniquity(not iniquity per se, but them who perform iniquity). So God does not love everyone.

Do you hate your mother and father? Your children, your brothers and sisters? Your wife?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Do you hate your mother and father? Your children, your brothers and sisters? Your wife?

No. But they never offended me like sinners did and are doing to God. So your questions FAIL!!!

 

[nailah783]

You never know who you are going to come across or what their needs are going to be. I drive cab, and a woman got in my can and she was crying. Her daughter had kicked her out, and was very abusive to her. She had also called the police on her and was trying to get her arrested. Her daughter is very heavy into drug use, and she didn't know what she could do to help her grandchildren get out of the situation. I don't normally do this, but as soon as she handed me the money from her ride, I took her hands and just prayed for and with her. She was so happy I did that with her, she started crying even harder because she was blessed by having me be her driver that day, and I was blessed by hearing her story because you never know how bad it can get. You may think that you are going through, but there is always someone going through worse.

 

[steaver]

You never know who you are going to come across or what their needs are going to be. I drive cab, and a woman got in my can and she was crying. Her daughter had kicked her out, and was very abusive to her. She had also called the police on her and was trying to get her arrested. Her daughter is very heavy into drug use, and she didn't know what she could do to help her grandchildren get out of the situation. I don't normally do this, but as soon as she handed me the money from her ride, I took her hands and just prayed for and with her. She was so happy I did that with her, she started crying even harder because she was blessed by having me be her driver that day, and I was blessed by hearing her story because you never know how bad it can get. You may think that you are going through, but there is always someone going through worse.

Amen! Did you tell her about Jesus dying for her?

 

[steaver]

No. But they never offended me like sinners did and are doing to God. So your questions FAIL!!!

Where in the passage did Jesus say "if they offend you, then you should hate them"? Here is what he said....

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Also it says God hated Esau BEFORE he ever offended (did anything right or wrong) so my question is not failing but your answer is.

 

[steaver]

My conduct? Please provide a quote that shows I have ....

"....hatred of the Gospel of Salvation by Grace alone through faith alone, and those who preach it",...and ... compels him (me) to attack all that is good, and holy, and Godly".

If you cannot, then who is doing the lying?

Also, the three who agreed with TC ( Blessedwife, SG and Icon ) should also provide the quotes of me showing these things I am accused of.

Don't forget to provide your proof brothers and sister. The board is waiting.......

 

[SovereignGrace]

Where in the passage did Jesus say "if they offend you, then you should hate them"? Here is what he said....

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Also it says God hated Esau BEFORE he ever offended (did anything right or wrong) so my question is not failing but your answer is.

You really need to do an indepth study on propitiation. Not being snarky, so please do not take it that way. By Christ's propitious works of the cross, God put His focus on His hatred of sin upon Christ. God hates sin so much that in His holiness, He poured out His wrath, His hatred(yes, God hated His Son while on the cross, being the symbol of sin) upon Him. Now that His wrath, His justice has been satisified, He can now justify the wicked. But yes, those questions you asked me earlier failed. My parents, wife, family, friends, even any enemies I may ever have had, never offended me in the way mankind has God.

 

[steaver]

You really need to do an indepth study on propitiation. Not being snarky, so please do not take it that way. By Christ's propitious works of the cross, God put His focus on His hatred of sin upon Christ. God hates sin so much that in His holiness, He poured out His wrath, His hatred(yes, God hated His Son while on the cross, being the symbol of sin) upon Him. Now that His wrath, His justice has been satisified, He can now justify the wicked. But yes, those questions you asked me earlier failed. My parents, wife, family, friends, even any enemies I may ever have had, never offended me in the way mankind has God.

Your reiterating your family did not "offend" you. The passage has nothing to do with them offending you. Esau did not offend God for he was not yet born, did not yet do anything right or wrong. And to say God hated the Son at the point He took on sin is ridiculous, but that is where Calvinism leads. God hates the SIN. When God looked away it is because God hates sin so much it pained Him to see it on His precious Son, but yet it had to be done.....

 

[steaver]

You really need to do an indepth study on propitiation. Not being snarky, so please do not take it that way. By Christ's propitious works of the cross, God put His focus on His hatred of sin upon Christ. God hates sin so much that in His holiness, He poured out His wrath, His hatred(yes, God hated His Son while on the cross, being the symbol of sin) upon Him. Now that His wrath, His justice has been satisified, He can now justify the wicked. But yes, those questions you asked me earlier failed. My parents, wife, family, friends, even any enemies I may ever have had, never offended me in the way mankind has God.

You realize in this position you take you are declaring Jesus Christ offended God? Face it, God does not "hate" as we humans understand or apply the word hate. His ways are far above our ways...

 

[SovereignGrace]

Your reiterating your family did not "offend" you. The passage has nothing to do with them offending you. Esau did not offend God for he was not yet born, did not yet do anything right or wrong. And to say God hated the Son at the point He took on sin is ridiculous, but that is where Calvinism leads. God hates the SIN. When God looked away it is because God hates sin so much it pained Him to see it on His precious Son, but yet it had to be done.....

This very post shows your hatred of the gospel. God hates all that work iniquity. Not just the sin, but those who sin(insert sinner). God hates Satan and those angels who rebelled(sinned) in heaven before the creation of the world.

Your truncated gospel? You can have it Monsieur.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You realize in this position you take you are declaring Jesus Christ offended God? Face it, God does not "hate" as we humans understand or apply the word hate. His ways are far above our ways...

You keep neutering the gospel Monsieur. This 'God is love' is the mantra of the LGBT community.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The arrogant cannot stand in Your presence. You hate all who do wrong.[Psa. 5:5]

This 'God hates the sin but not the sinner' is wonderful bumper sticker theology, but horrible doctrine.

 

[SovereignGrace]

We've gotten off track from the OP...


UPDATE:

That girl was discharged two days after being admitted. I do not know anything else about her now. I pray that, through God's providence, our paths cross in the future. But I do not have any new info on her status. Just please pray for her.

 

[steaver]

This very post shows your hatred of the gospel. God hates all that work iniquity. Not just the sin, but those who sin(insert sinner). God hates Satan and those angels who rebelled(sinned) in heaven before the creation of the world.

Your truncated gospel? You can have it Monsieur.

You are still missing the part that Esau was "hated" by God BEFORE he did anything right or wrong. There is no "offense" spoken of either with Esau or with your family who you are instructed to hate. So all these rabbit trails and deflection is not helping your case.

"God hated His Son"? And you declare I hate the gospel? Really?

"If a person cannot argue the issue he will usually try to argue the semantics. If he is too ignorant to argue the semantics he will usually try to argue personality."

"If you can't answer a man's argument all is not lost you can still call him vile names" Elbert Hubbard.

 

[SovereignGrace]

When Adam sinned all mankind was imputed Adam's sin. If God had not sent Jesus, that hatred would have been upon all mankind. That is what propitiation means. It satiated, appeased God's wrath, God's justice. Christ's propitious works was for those chosen from the creation of the world. Esau, not chosen by God, was an object of God's wrath. Read Romans 9.

Your truncated, neutered gospel? You can have it. It will not save one soul.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Adam's sinned was imputed upon his posterity in the exact fashion Christ's righteousness is imputed unto His sheep.

 

[steaver]

Your truncated, neutered gospel? You can have it. It will not save one soul.

This is the sad reality of what Calvinism does to a person. This isn't just one person. We see on just this thread alone that four people here believe that if you do not agree with Calvinism's version of things, then you hate the Gospel and cannot be saved.

On the other side, the non-Cals, I have yet to see them ever declare a Calvinist hating the Gospel or being unsaved.

Here we have four Calvinist declaring a non-Cal hating the Gospel and of course if anyone hates the Gospel they certainly would not be saved as SG has added.

They say no it is just YOU Steaver. Name one thing I said that any non-Cal does not say the same.

This thread has been very illuminating indeed!

 

[SovereignGrace]

You was the one who started it on its downward spiral Monsieur. If you do not like it, do not post. No one is forcing you to post your foolishness.