Featured Anathema and the RCC

Ok so one thread you accuse that CATHOLICS are too loose allowing the salvation of Muslims, Athiest, Jews, And now you are saying we are exclusive to salvation.

MAKE up your mind.

Pick one, and call the other a LIE.

Your going to get slammed in this debate and you know it.

 

Technically i have been excommunicated for missing Mass on Sunday! Maybe even from eating a cheeseburger on a Friday!

That doesn't mean I'm cursed into Hellfire.

Also once catholic, always catholic. you can't get kicked out. If you go back they are not going to baptize you again.

This is why we have a catechism. If you can point out the actual rule and teaching you believe is wrong from there, GREAT.

95% of the stuff I debate is pure misrepresentation.

I would be shocked if I had to debate something we actually believe.

In short, Hank, you got it wrong......again.

We have a catechism, its like a book that explains the beliefs and where the beliefs are drawn from scripture,etc.

All you have to do is say I don't believe this here and slap down a number.



You wana talk about DOUBLESPEAK/DOUBLETHINK?

I mean if I go to a Baptist Church all Baptist are CALVINIST RIGHT?

 

It doesn't depend on us and our purity but God's love.

John 17

21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

HankD

 

That is different than the clash of doctrines between transubstantiation and "the bloodless sacrifice of the mass" which comes down from the Vatican and must be believed upon penalty of excommunication.

There are only a few sins worthy of excommunication and missing mass is not one of them.

Abortion, heresy, apostasy and others are cause for automatic excommunication.

Apart from abortion, are there other sins that incur automatic excommunication? | Catholic Answers.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


HankD

 

Nothing to do with any family ties, just a belief that they were there at the beginning and are still here now. For a period of about 10 years of my adult life I didn't attend any religious services anywhere. When I sought forgiveness for my sins in the name of Jesus Christ, I started attending various Christian denominations and at every one I attended I kept comparing them to the Catholic Mass. In the end I realized that all I was getting at those places was just a different interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, and they differed from Pastor to Pastor.

Then there is the type of worship. I like the liturgical way of worship with it's set form, and also to me the teaching of the sacraments as a way to help one live a holy life make sense. The biggest thing though is the Mass, the re-presentation of that day on Calvary, and the Holy Eucharist, living out and doing what the Scriptures say we ought to do as we worship. It was a long way back, but I am glad that I am here.

 

Of course I believe in the Universal Church's declarations and teachings. Much of the things you are saying is from the past and things have changed. You folks are our separated brethren and God will have mercy on you for your rejection of the orthodox Christian doctrines because you still are believers in Jesus Christ.

For someone who disdains the Catholic Church so much and what we believe, you certainly seem concerned about us a whole lot. Why so? If you are secure in your Christian faith tradition that should be enough, no? What we think and profess, and what the Church teaches should really not bother you one bit. I think maybe in the back of your head something is telling you we might just be on to something.

 

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So very true! But I would never say such things about any Christian believer as the mercy of God Almighty is so great it is sometimes hard to comprehend. With our limited minds we can only take in so much and it is for Him to judge, not us.

 

My experience is a little more complicated.....my fathers people were of of a few denominations but they mostly gravitated to Calvinistic Welsh Methodists (not Arminian) & my mothers side are very Italian Roman Catholics. How these two met up is a long story but bottom line is they decided to raise us kids up as Catholics. In the old days, that created quite a ruckus. Today I wish they had not done that, I would have preferred selecting my own church.

After reading much scripture, much writings by men throughout the ages, I am most struck with a kinsman of mine named David Lloyd-Jones who grappled with "denominational-ism .... in his own words, "If a man comes to me and asks 'But what do they teach in there?' I would reply, Go in and listen. ' Why should we put up a notice that is going to exclude people? Let it be known that the gospel is going to be preached here. That is what a church is for. Let them go in, let them listen, they will soon find out what is being preached and then they can decide for themselves whether they are going there again or whether they are not.

Sounds like a plan to me!

 

And where do you worship now?

 

Is intentionally missing Mass a Mortal or Venial sin?

 

Where is God?

 

In my day it was a mortal sin and apparently still is- maybe?.

Here is another example of a verbal salad with the meaning of - not always - unless there is serious reason then it is "a grave sin".

The answer goes on to further explain the "gravity of matter" in terms of intent in the reason for missing mass.

More apologetic follows ...

Is missing Mass a mortal sin?


HankD

 

I don't pay any attention to Rome and I have some good friends who are Roman Catholic. It seems to me that they have left Trent on the books for a reason. They claim to have the keys to heaven and they have said as recently as Pope Benedict that there is no salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church. A friend from South America told me that only Roman Catholics go to heaven but that doctrine is apparently not taught in the USA. So I think by anathema they mean excommunication but the result of the excommunication means that the person will go to hell. I consider Roman Catholicism as Christian but I also consider Roman Catholicism as incapable of reform. Afterall, before Protestants left 500 years ago, Eastern Orthodox left in 1054--so that is two major splits of long standing nature. Finally, in Dominus Iesus about 2000, they really said that third-way Protestants really weren't churches at all.

"On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,61 are not Churches in the proper sense...."

Dominus Iesus

 

This is not something that was claimed in 2002, 1952, 1932, 1432, 1032, 852, or even 432. This claim goes back to the very beginning right after the Apostles and the beginnings of the newly emerging Christian Church and comes directly from the singling out of the Apostle Peter by Christ and given ecclesiastical authority by Him.

It is thus written in Matthew: "Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”…

Such a concept was accepted by the whole of Christendom. One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church - there was no other, with a leadership of Bishops with authority from God Incarnate which had been passed onto them.

Tertullian, considered on of the Early Church Fathers wrote in the 3rd century in his work "The Prescription Against the Heretics" the following: "For this is the way the apostolic Churches transmit their lists: like the Church of the Symrnaeans, which records that Polycarp was placed there by John; like the Church of the Romans, where Clement was ordained by Peter. In just this same way the other Churches display those whom they have as sprouts from the apostolic seed, having been established in the episcopate by the Apostles."

And in 251 St. Cyprian of Carthage wrote : "And again He says to him [Peter] after His resurrection: 'Feed my sheep' (John 21:17). On him He builds the Church, and to him He gives the command to feed the sheep; and although He assigns a like power to all the Apostles, yet He founded a single chair, and He established by His own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was; but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all our shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the Apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that his is in the Church?"

There were no Baptists, no Episcopalians, no Mormons, no SDA, no Methodists, etc. Just one Universal (Catholic) Christian Church that over 95% (or more) of all Christians on the planet belonged to and which today's Roman Catholic Church is the direct descendant of.

 

GOD IS A CATHOLIC. (most other religions ain't too sure)

We will boldly tell you God is Catholic.

There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church, Surprise we believe Heaven is Catholic, God is Catholic, Jesus is Catholic. If they weren't Catholic we wouldn't be Catholic.

We are the one true church and surprise everyone else cause we act like it.


This however does not mean we have the same xenophobic, fascist, exclusivity of only Catholics go to heaven. We didn't plan on multiple religions.....there was just nothing......then a church.

But in heaven, everyone there is 100% Catholic.


After you die......100% everyone is going to be Catholic. Lets say you are muslim....ok you pass away..ala akbar....ok you meet Jesus....he's obviously catholic, seeing the truth what can you do? your gonna end up catholic.



Common now people....... One thread you guys say we are too easy on other religions and athiest, because we protect other religions and atheists.

And then you turn around and say well we only think we are selves go to heaven and everyone else gets hell.

Please make up your minds......

 

By their fruits you shall know them:

Catholic Church massacres and mass murders:

The Crusades
The Roman and Spanish Inquisitions
The Peasants' War, 1524-25,
Protestant-Catholic Wars of Religion
French Wars of Religion 1562 to 1598.
Massacre of Vassy 1562.
St. Bartholomew's Day massacre 1572.
The Thirty Years War 1618 to 1648.
Ulster massacres 1641
The massacre of the Waldensians in the Luberon. In the 14th and 15th centuries

Killings for Christianity

 

For folks who swear there ain't no Original sin which one of those you need me to apologize for?

 

All of them.

Actually the Pope must and repent of the shedding of innocent blood.

And yes there is Original Sin:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


HankD

 

I never said no faith is needed. How come you have to Lie so much?


I don't have to misrepresent anything about you to point something being wrong. I can stop until I have your confirmation and acknowledgement to what you believe and still squash your theology on the spot.

But you require to make up Lies to find fault with catholic faith, that is pathetic.