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Angels and CoHabiting with Mankind?

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kyredneck

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1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born unto them,
2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose. Gen 6

Originally Posted by webdog
1. I would like one person to show me anywhere in the Bible where a "son of God" is a demon or anything less than one in union with God......

Originally Posted by blackbird
And I agree with Webdog, also!!

Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them. Job 1:6

Again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan came also among them to present himself before Jehovah. Job 2:1

When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7

[add]

Contrast with:

1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, namely, of Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
2 The sons of Japheth: Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3 And the sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
4 And the sons of Javan: Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
5 Of these were the isles of the nations divided in their lands, every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
6 And the sons of Ham: Cush, and Mizraim, and Put, and Canaan.
7 And the sons of Cush: Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabteca; and the sons of Raamah: Sheba, and Dedan....etc, Gen 10


This clearly shows the separation between a demon and sons of God

I don't know why you've brought 'demons' into this. What the ancient text clearly implies is that 'sons of God' does mean something other than 'sons of men'.
 
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DHK did a great job answering those questions.
No, he didn't. But you're free to think that if you wish.
Why do you say the angel that appeared to Daniel did not have a human form? Simply because Daniel recognized him to be an angel?
:BangHead: Yeah, that would be a pretty good clue!
In Daniel 9:21 the angel is called "the man Gabriel." Daniel recognized him in the form of a man, not a spirit or a ghost.
Again you are incorrect, perhaps from a lack of understanding the simplicity of the Hebrew. Hebrew is a very literal language. Each word, except for proper names, personal pronouns, and some verbs, has many meanings. The word "man" is translated from the Hebrew 'eesh, but it can simply be a gender-specific pronoun, and in fact acts as an adjective when used with a proper name. It identifies Gabriel as male. It does not identify him as a "man" nor does it indicate he appears fleshly in appearance. All angels are identified in the masculine. No where in the Bible are any spoken of in any form or fashion that would suggest females.

When Gabriel first appears to Daniel in 8:15, Daniel specifically states that "before me was one who looked like a man." The word "looked" is the Hebrew mar'eh meaning "having an appearance" or, as a vision. Daniel never mistook Gabriel for a fleshly being, nor should we.
 
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Gina B

Active Member
you didn't read what I said. I said why would a demon OBEY Gods institution of marriage? Like a demon wouldn't just rape a woman...he had to take her hand in marriage?!? Ridiculous.

You're working under the assumption that a fallen angel (demon) is automatically going to do everything visibly wicked within your imagination. By default, everything someone apart from G-d does is wicked, because it is done apart.

Who appears as an angel of light?
Can you not see the power in the deceit of appearing so close to good that you are nearly indistinguishable?

That is how evil operates.

Also consider that there are degrees of behaviors among those who walk outside of the will of their Creator. Not all walk around raping and pillaging and burning down villages. "It can't be true because they'd just rape people, not marry them, because they're bad and that's how bad people must act" is not a logical way to examine a possible historical event.
 

webdog

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1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born unto them,
2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose. Gen 6










I don't know why you've brought 'demons' into this. What the ancient text clearly implies is that 'sons of God' does mean something other than 'sons of men'.
You must share DHK's reading skills :)

I never implied that. Reread what I wrote.
 

webdog

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You're working under the assumption that a fallen angel (demon) is automatically going to do everything visibly wicked within your imagination. By default, everything someone apart from G-d does is wicked, because it is done apart.

Who appears as an angel of light?
Can you not see the power in the deceit of appearing so close to good that you are nearly indistinguishable?

That is how evil operates.

Also consider that there are degrees of behaviors among those who walk outside of the will of their Creator. Not all walk around raping and pillaging and burning down villages. "It can't be true because they'd just rape people, not marry them, because they're bad and that's how bad people must act" is not a logical way to examine a possible historical event.
I've never heard of a demon with good morals, this is a first :)

At any rate, only the righteous and angels (never demons, ie fallen angels) are referred to as SoG, and species only reproduce after their kinds
 
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Gina B

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I've never heard of a demon with good morals, this is a first :)

At any rate, only the righteous and angels (never demons, ie fallen angels) are referred to as SoG, and species only reproduce after their kinds

Then what were they before they fell?
 

Gina B

Active Member
They WERE SoG. The Bible never refers to fallen angels as SoG, what would be needed to make the text fit.

Then who were the sons vs the daughters? People born of men and women were not referred to in that manner in the old testament. Only in reference to those whose original habitation was meant to be heaven is that wording used.
 

webdog

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...and you're just as squirrelly as you ever were....

No, I just know how to read and invited you to try the same. I'll make it real simple for you...only the righteous and angels are in union with God. Better?
 

webdog

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kyredneck

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No, I just know how to read and invited you to try the same. I'll make it real simple for you...only the righteous and angels are in union with God. Better?

OK, point taken. And I'll reiterate, what the ancient text clearly implies is that 'sons of God' does mean something other than 'sons of men'.
 

Gina B

Active Member
While I normally disagree with Sproul, and do about his view on angels, I believe he has the correct context in view. http://www.ligonier.org/blog/who-are-sons-god-and-daughters-men-genesis-6/

That makes some sense, but I can see arguments in that too. If I haven't mentioned it, I see arguments in all these theories. :saint:

One is that it makes no sense that when this phrase was used every other time, it referred to angels, but in this one instance, where the phrase is identical to the one where they present themselves in heaven with Satan, and nearly the same as the other two where it clearly refers to angelic beings, it suddenly means regular people.

Another is that the old testament simply does not refer to regular people as "sons of G-d" vs "sons of man" to define believers vs unbelievers, and it seems pretty interesting that marrying unbelieving women would result in heroes and men of renown. Something doesn't seem quite right with interpreting those two things in that manner.
 

kyredneck

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While I normally disagree with Sproul, and do about his view on angels, I believe he has the correct context in view. http://www.ligonier.org/blog/who-are-sons-god-and-daughters-men-genesis-6/

While I normally agree with Sproul, and do not about his view on angels, I believe he has the incorrect context in view. I agree with Pink. It was Satan's device to thwart the coming of the seed of the woman. Cain, who was of Satan, killed Abel, Gen 4. That was Satan's very first recorded attack after the pronouncement of Gen 3:15. Then we have the attack of Gen 6. Then we have many, many recorded attacks after that down through the centuries.
 

kyredneck

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And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child. Rev 12:4
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
While I normally disagree with Sproul, and do about his view on angels, I believe he has the correct context in view. http://www.ligonier.org/blog/who-are-sons-god-and-daughters-men-genesis-6/
He says:
We see Seth’s line about the business of exercising dominion, in submission to the Lord. We see Cain’s line dishonoring the law of God and making names for themselves.
Is there proof for this? Can anyone trace the lines of the women of Seth back to see if they had remained pure of when they had begun "intermarrying," or is this just guess work?
Since when is it a sin for a descendant from Cain to marry a descendant of Seth? Does the Bible explicitly condemn this as sin?
It condemns:

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
--Where are the lines of Seth and the lines of Cain mentioned here?
The argument is an argument from silence and doesn't make sense.

Remember when Dina went "to see the daughters of the land," and instead saw Shechem and was consequently raped by him. The end result was that Simeon and Levi, in their deceit, after getting the men of the town to agree to circumcision, went in and destroyed everyone in the city.
Why didn't that bring the judgement of God?
Why not when the Israelites took for them wives from the Moabites?
There has been intermarriage many times throughout Israel's sordid history. Never has it been so bad as to warrant a world-wide destruction as The Flood. That view just does not make sense.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus verified the historicity of the Flood here. The Coming of Christ would be in times similar to these.
[FONT=&quot]
Moral and spiritual conditions in the antediluvian world had deteriorated with the passing years, not only among the Cainites but eventually among the Sethites as well. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Then, in the days of Noah, a strange and terrible event took place, leading rapidly to such a tidal wave of violence and wickedness over the earth that there was no longer any remedy but utter destruction. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The interpretation of the passage obviously turns on the meaning of the phrase “sons of God” (bene elohim). [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The actual phrase bene elohim is used three other times, all in the ancient book of Job (1:6; 2:1; 38:7). There is no doubt at all that, in these passages, the meaning applies exclusively to the angels. A very similar form (bar elohim) [/FONT] is used in Daniel 3:25, and also refers either to an angel or to a theophany. The term “sons of the mighty” (bene elim) is used in Psalm 29:1 and also Psalm 89:6, and again refers to angels. Thus, there seems no reasonable doubt that, in so far as the language itself is concerned, the intent of the writer was to convey the thought of angels – fallen angels, no doubt, since they were acting in opposition to God’s will. This also was the meaning placed on the passage by the Greek translators of the Septuagint, by Josephus, by the writer of ancient apocryphal book of Enoch, and by all the other ancient Jewish interpreters and the earliest Christian writers. Apparently the first Christian writers to suggest the Sethite interpretation were Chrysostom and Augustine.



[FONT=&quot]When Jesus said that the angels of God in heaven do not marry, this does not necessarily mean that those who have been cast out of heaven were incapable of doing so. It clearly was not God’s will or intention that angels mix in such a way with human women, but these wicked angels were not concerned with obedience to God’s will.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
The fact that these creatures could take whatever women they chose further suggests a general state of profligacy which made indiscriminate sexual unions quite commonplace. This is also suggested by Christ's descriptive phrase “marrying and giving [out] in marriage” (Matthew 24:38) as characteristic of the careless attitudes of the days of Noah.



[FONT=&quot]If, for the sake of argument at least, we assume that the bene elohim were, indeed, angels, and that angels can assume such a total human form that they actually have male reproductive systems, then a grave question would have to be posed relative to the nature of the progeny that would result from their sexual intercourse with human women.
[/FONT]


Fallen angels have no possibility of salvation, but fallen men and women do have at least this possibility. What, then, would be the case with “people” who were half-angel, half-men?
This seems to be such a grotesque situation that it does appear extremely doubtful that God would have allowed it at all, even if it really were physiologically a realistic possibility. And yet, as already indicated, it does violence to the actual text of the passage if we make it mean merely that the sons of Seth began to marry the daughters of Cain. (If this were what it meant, why did not the writer simply say so, and thus avoid all this confusion?) And why the giants, and why the universal violence?



The sons of Seth were surely not all godly men; so why should they be called sons of God (remember, they all perished in the Flood)? Furthermore, Adam had many sons in addition to Cain and Seth; were they spiritual “sons of God,” too? Not very likely, at this period of history. Furthermore, why stress only the union of godly men with ungodly women? What about the “daughters of God”? Were they being married to “sons of men”?
This naturalistic interpretation is so forced and awkward that it seems to do disservice to the doctrine of divine inspiration to suppose that this is really what the writer meant to say. He surely meant to convey to his readers the idea that, in these days of Noah, such an awful irruption of abnormality and wickedness burst forth on the earth that it could only be explained by a demoniacally supernatural cause.
The above are some of the arguments put forth by John Morris in his commentary "The Genesis Record"
 

Reynolds

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Seriously .... was it possible, according the the Bible for angels to cohabitate with humans? I cam across this verse while reading Jude, and found it interesting and probing.

"And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.…"

In these passages (ob 1: 6 and 2:1. There it is used of angels, both holy and fallen, since Satan was among them. In Job 38:7, the “sons of God” are the angels who rejoiced at the creation of the earth), do the words, "Sons of God" refer to fallen angels, and if so did they cohabitate with the daughters of men?

I would like your opinion, and becuse of this sin, was it one of the key reasons God sent the flood?

Yep, the Nephilim and the Anakim.
 

just-want-peace

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Well you know that the flood was just a regional event according to many folks, so if it was not a "JUDGEMENT OF GOD", then there could certainly be no specifics in this locality that could have spurred God to such an action.

Just one minor example of the liberalizing of scripture that has a domino effect.

Taken to the extreme, the Word is nothing more than a series of individual compilations of ancient legends.

In this instance, God noted that there were various off-spring from these un-Godly unions, that DO NOT FIT the natural progeny of man-kind; why not accept what He said, and stop trying to second guess God???

Just accept what He said, as He said it, even if it doesn't fit "my" concepts of what God "ought" to say!!??!!??
 

righteousdude2

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Well you know that the flood was just a regional event according to many folks

I would have to say that, whomever those "folks" are calling it a "regional event" they are wrong. If we are believing the Word to be a Biblical Worldview of God and His Word, than we have to believe the flood covered the entire earth.

Here are several versions of Genesis 7:10:

New International Version -And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.

New Living Translation - After seven days, the waters of the flood came and covered the earth.

English Standard Version - And after seven days the waters of the flood came upon the earth.

New American Standard Bible - It came about after the seven days, that the water of the flood came upon the earth.

King James Bible - And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

If God said, I believe it, andThanks for your feedback, as it permitted me to contribute to a major misunderstanding that many churches hold to! I know you don't believe this, but I couldn't help but point this out! :type:
 

Yeshua1

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Well you know that the flood was just a regional event according to many folks, so if it was not a "JUDGEMENT OF GOD", then there could certainly be no specifics in this locality that could have spurred God to such an action.

Just one minor example of the liberalizing of scripture that has a domino effect.

Taken to the extreme, the Word is nothing more than a series of individual compilations of ancient legends.

In this instance, God noted that there were various off-spring from these un-Godly unions, that DO NOT FIT the natural progeny of man-kind; why not accept what He said, and stop trying to second guess God???

Just accept what He said, as He said it, even if it doesn't fit "my" concepts of what God "ought" to say!!??!!??

Except that wording was quite clear that it was a Universal Flood, God sent in judgement upon evil mankind,,,

And the Scriptures are God breathed, so while the authors might hve known of other traditions, they did NOT include them in their accounts! they had a diredct revelation by God...
 
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