easternstar
Active Member
Anybody see any scriptural and/or early church support for it?
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Annihilation
- Thread starter easternstar
- Start date
Well, around 2000 years ago, the first Covenant, the Old Testament, decayed and waxes old and ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13 revealed :-> In that he saith, A new Covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. By analogy, the same occurs now, even now, and from now on, with the New Covenant, because the Kingdoms of THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and of He shall reign for ever and ever.-Revelation 11:15-18, take a look.
Now, even now, from now on, the Old Testament and New Testament, both will be annihilated, as was prophesied by Peter Apostle, around 2000 years ago.->2Peter 3:7:->7 But the heavens-> (the heavenly environment of the Old and New Testaments) and the earth->(the current Israel with its false lamb, false messiah, the Beast of earth->(John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11-18), WHICH ARE NOW, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ->(This Day arrived, the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium. In fact, we are living at the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day, it's midnight GOD's clock-Matthew 25:6).
That said. ->Peter Apostle warned us, saying:->verses 11-14:->11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED(keep this in your mind-DISSOLVED), what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD(THIS DAY ARRIVED), wherein the heavens(1st and 2nd heavens, the 3rd will be established from now on) being on FIRE shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless WE, according to His promise, look for New Heavens and a New earth->(Spiritual Israel-Revelation 7:1-8), wherein dwelleth righteousness. - Alleluia! - Even so, come, Lord JESUS.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for SUCH THINGS, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
1John 2:28 ->28 And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
Amen.
Remember: ->
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.-1Cor.13:9-10
Now, even now, from now on, the Old Testament and New Testament, both will be annihilated, as was prophesied by Peter Apostle, around 2000 years ago.->2Peter 3:7:->7 But the heavens-> (the heavenly environment of the Old and New Testaments) and the earth->(the current Israel with its false lamb, false messiah, the Beast of earth->(John 5:43-47 combined with Revelation 13:11-18), WHICH ARE NOW, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ->(This Day arrived, the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium. In fact, we are living at the turn from the sixth to the seventh Day, it's midnight GOD's clock-Matthew 25:6).
That said. ->Peter Apostle warned us, saying:->verses 11-14:->11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED(keep this in your mind-DISSOLVED), what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD(THIS DAY ARRIVED), wherein the heavens(1st and 2nd heavens, the 3rd will be established from now on) being on FIRE shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless WE, according to His promise, look for New Heavens and a New earth->(Spiritual Israel-Revelation 7:1-8), wherein dwelleth righteousness. - Alleluia! - Even so, come, Lord JESUS.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for SUCH THINGS, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
1John 2:28 ->28 And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
Amen.
GET READY => The glory which shall be revealed-->IN US -> sons of GOD <=
====================The glory which shall be revealed-->in us================== Romans 8:18-21: 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the...
purebibleforum.com
Remember: ->
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.-1Cor.13:9-10
easternstar
Active Member
Well, I was speaking about the destiny of the human spirit -- eternal torment, annihilation, or universalism.
Ascetic X
Active Member
Many people think their life is just to have success and fun, then they die and there is nothingness. But actually our life is how we prepare ourselves for judgment, the eternal rewards or punishments we shall experience in the unending afterlife. This is why Jesus said Judas will wish he had never been born. If sinners merely faced annihilation, Jesus probably would not have said that.
Mark 9:47,48
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’
"The worm does not die" is a powerful biblical metaphor, primarily from Isaiah and quoted by Jesus, symbolizing eternal conscious punishment, unending sensations of torment, and irreversible ongoing destruction for the wicked in hell, representing perpetual decay and suffering where the "food" (the body or memory) is never fully consumed by the worm, unlike earthly decay that ends.
I personally think the worm is the sinner’s conscience that, suppressed in this life, is fully activated in the afterlife, eating away at them, causing relentless anguish and guilt.
Lazarus and the rich man is another refutation of annihilation.
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easternstar
Active Member
A sentiment has been growing -- yes, even in evangelical circles -- that favors annihilation over eternal torment. Is it consistent with God's character -- his mercy, love, and justice -- to punish eternally?
Ascetic X
Active Member
Yes, it is. It is consistent with God’s nature (wrath and love) to let people be rewarded eternally and to let others experience punishment eternally.
Eternal torment is not God torturing a sinner. I believe the punishment comes from the sinner’s own conscience which, finally liberated from the haze of materialistic deception, false religion, and selfish hedonism, will persecute and hound them endlessly. God is love, but He is no chump. He must not be trifled with. Each person makes themself compatible with heaven or compatible with hell.
A sinner would be miserable in heaven. They would dislike gentleness, peace, holiness, self-restraint, devout living, praising God. They prefer turmoil, cruelty, perversions, lust, disobeying and mocking God. They will not enjoy hell, but they design their destiny by what they do. Death seals their fate.
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easternstar
Active Member
I'm not sure that I believe what a person does in a 70-year life span deserves punishment without end.
Tea
Active Member
The Bible doesn't say that a lost person stops sinning after death. That's something to think about as well.
easternstar
Active Member
Ascetic X
Active Member
Do not persist in seeing it as punishment without end. See it as designing the soul to conform to one destination or the other.
What you do in your life of 70 years, either get saved or reject salvation, is what determines your destination. It is not that 70 years of sinning “deserves” an inequality of an eternity of self-tormenting retribution. “I sinned only for 70 years, so my hell should last only 70 years!” is bad math in the spiritual realm. It is about soul designing, which realm you aimed for in this life.
It’s not about how long the self-tormenting punishment lasts. It’s about how a person designs their soul and the consequences of that design. If a person configures their soul to be evil, rejecting the holy, their conscience will accuse them forever and it is their own fault that their state is set like this permanently.
They don’t realize that the way they design their current life is exactly how they are designing their personal eternity, but that too is due to their own negligence, not paying attention to what the God the Word declared throughout the Bible.
Gods does not arbitrarily decide their punishment for 70 years of sinful life must last forever. The sinner designs their soul, then the permanently sinful soul must never be allowed into heaven to corrupt it. The sinner thinks they can whoop it up in this life and has no idea that they are designing their soul to be compatible only with hell, the place of self-torment from their own memories of what they were and what they should have been.
It is similar to how if you do not get an education or learn a trade, you will be poor all your life. You determined to be of low value to society and you must therefore experience poverty and poor living conditions. We may think it is not fair that what a person decides when 18 should affect what they are from 18 to 70 years old, but that is how it works.
It is not about God being angry with sinners eternally. It is about sinners designing their souls to fit in with the self-torment called Hell or getting saved and fitting in with the self-satisfying blessings of heaven.
If a person rejects holiness in this life, they exclude themselves from holy heaven in the afterlife. It is all about how you design your soul, and that design determines your destination which never changes. If the destination could change, it would trash the whole apparatus of repentance, salvation, obeying God, true worship, reaping what we sow, taking up your cross and following Him, etc.
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I doubt God see's it that way considering what His Son did for man and then He's rejected.
What they do is choose.
God created a creature in His image and His likeness, with enough sovereignty and agency to freely choose or reject God.
To the angels He gave an instant to decide, to us a 70-year lifespan.
God will not force us to love Him who is all good.
But rejecting all Good deserves all punishment. It's only just.
easternstar
Active Member
I'm not so sure about that.
The concept of an eternal soul in Christianity comes more from the influence of Greek philosophy than from Judaism.
easternstar
Active Member
I hate to say this, but it's true. If I didn't have a good basis for some of the things I believe, some of the strongest reasons for rejecting Christianity as it is taught by many come from within Christianity itself.
If the God that many Christians present is not more merciful and just than I am, then He is not the God whom Jesus represented. Some doctrines held by Christians are hideous, and it's hard for me to understand how people can believe such doctrines.
The more I search and ponder, and come to specific conclusions, the less I seem to fit in anywhere. And the older I get, the less certain about things I become.
If the God that many Christians present is not more merciful and just than I am, then He is not the God whom Jesus represented. Some doctrines held by Christians are hideous, and it's hard for me to understand how people can believe such doctrines.
The more I search and ponder, and come to specific conclusions, the less I seem to fit in anywhere. And the older I get, the less certain about things I become.
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We can believe it because it's written in Scripture, in several places.
If you have doubts of the authenticity of the Scripture, well, any wind can blow you.
Opinion of the tree good and evil(Genesis 3:22) is good for nothing. Your thinking is from a human perspective->Genesis 3:1, man of sin, in fact a stumblingblock, your thinking is not from GOD's perspective. What matters and prevails is the righteous Judgment of GOD as is written in His book, understand? by the way, the book of life. ->John 1:5-> The light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. -> GOD is Light-> the Greater Light-, and in Him is no darkness at all.-1John 1:5.
JESUS said for the Devil:-> Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of GOD-Matthew 4:4. Well, every Word that proceeded out of the mouth of GOD is written in His book, the Scriptures, the Bible, beginning by the prophets, beginning by Moses, understand? My Lord JESUS left very very clear, saying: -> He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.-John 7:38.->This is the testimony of JESUS.
Reading the content of your posts in this Christian site, and discerning your spirit by the Word of GOD, you're simply walking about the believers, walking around them, here and elsewhere, something like a stumblingblock. What you have learned you learned from men, as said Paul Apostle to the Church of Corinthians:->2Corinthians 11:13-15:-> 13 For such are false apostles, DECEITFUL workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.(the light is the Word of GOD-Psalms 119:105). 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers(MINISTERS OF SATAN, MINISTERS OF THE DEVIL) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose END shall be according to their works.->Revelation 20:12-15, take a look.
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I’ve faced numerous challenges and hardships throughout my life, and currently, I find myself in the midst of one. There have been times when I’ve considered that accepting my situation would be much simpler if I believed there was no God, that nothing bad has a purpose, and it’s all just...
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Has this thread defined "Annihilation?"
1) The belief when we physically die, our conscious awareness ends, there is no afterlife.
2) The belief when we physically die, we are taken either to Hades or to Heaven. Those taken to Heaven live forever. Those taken to Hades suffer torment for ever.
3) The belief where those who physically die, and do not go to Heaven, go to Hades and suffer torment as required by God's perfect justice. Subsequently, those consigned to Hades, are taken before the Great White Throne Judgement, and then thrown into the Lake of Fire where after torment to fulfill God's perfect justice, they are destroyed.
4) The absence eternal punishment, separation from God forever, is called Universalism. None of the three prior views are consistent with Universalism.
1) The belief when we physically die, our conscious awareness ends, there is no afterlife.
2) The belief when we physically die, we are taken either to Hades or to Heaven. Those taken to Heaven live forever. Those taken to Hades suffer torment for ever.
3) The belief where those who physically die, and do not go to Heaven, go to Hades and suffer torment as required by God's perfect justice. Subsequently, those consigned to Hades, are taken before the Great White Throne Judgement, and then thrown into the Lake of Fire where after torment to fulfill God's perfect justice, they are destroyed.
4) The absence eternal punishment, separation from God forever, is called Universalism. None of the three prior views are consistent with Universalism.
Do you believe that all humanity is eventually saved? Do you believe that any punishment in the afterlife is only temporary? I am trying to figure out what your current position would look like.
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Our Lord JESUS left very very clear, saying: Mark 9:42-50:
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee,cut it off:it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell->(Matthew 10:28, take a look), into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where (into hell) their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell(Matthew 10:28, take a look), into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not(where the brute beast never dies), and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:(Matthew 10:28, take a look)
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
On the other hand, what to say about this? >Matthew 8:21-22:
21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. -> Terrible, very terrible. -> This means exactly that people are dead before they even die. Yes, in fact, except for true believers, everyone else, without exception, are already dead before they die. -> Paul Apostle wrote to the believers of Colosse->(and to us too), saying: Colossians 3:1->If ye then be RISEN with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of GOD. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:5-10 combined with Ephesians 3:1-13 ->Written by Paul in 60-62 AD while imprisoned in Rome. The first pope called Linvs was about to be elected in the apostate Church of Rome.
verse 5 - Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye(we) are saved
6 And hath RAISED us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of GOD:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ JESUS unto good works, which GOD hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Look, the true believers are not died, but alive, the dead do not praise GOD- Psalms 115:17-18 say: 17 The DEAD(Matthew 8:22) praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. 18 But we (true believers) will bless the Lord from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the Lord. ->
Please, brothers, read what the prophet Malachi left revealed for the true believers-Malachi 3:16-18.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee,cut it off:it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell->(Matthew 10:28, take a look), into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where (into hell) their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell(Matthew 10:28, take a look), into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not(where the brute beast never dies), and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:(Matthew 10:28, take a look)
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
On the other hand, what to say about this? >Matthew 8:21-22:
21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. -> Terrible, very terrible. -> This means exactly that people are dead before they even die. Yes, in fact, except for true believers, everyone else, without exception, are already dead before they die. -> Paul Apostle wrote to the believers of Colosse->(and to us too), saying: Colossians 3:1->If ye then be RISEN with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of GOD. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:5-10 combined with Ephesians 3:1-13 ->Written by Paul in 60-62 AD while imprisoned in Rome. The first pope called Linvs was about to be elected in the apostate Church of Rome.
verse 5 - Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye(we) are saved
6 And hath RAISED us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of GOD:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ JESUS unto good works, which GOD hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Look, the true believers are not died, but alive, the dead do not praise GOD- Psalms 115:17-18 say: 17 The DEAD(Matthew 8:22) praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence. 18 But we (true believers) will bless the Lord from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the Lord. ->
Please, brothers, read what the prophet Malachi left revealed for the true believers-Malachi 3:16-18.
GET READY => The glory which shall be revealed-->IN US -> sons of GOD <=
====================The glory which shall be revealed-->in us================== Romans 8:18-21: 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the...
purebibleforum.com
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