Another Abortion Poll

[donnA]

Here's part of a message I have preached on the sanctity of life:


In researching for this message I found something very interesting. We need to remember that the New Testament as originally written in Greek, and they had had more than one word for our English word, “child.” The most common word, found over 98 times in the New Testament is the word “TEKNON.” This word talks about a child in relation to a parent. But, there is an interesting word for “child” that is found only 8 times in the New Testament that sheds a great deal of light on what the Bible teaches about the unborn. Its the Greek word “BREPHOS.” These are the verses where it is found:
**Acts 7:19 - This man dealt treacherously with our people, and oppressed our forefathers, making them expose their babies [BREPHOS], so that they might not live.
**Luke 18:15 - Then they also brought infants [BREPHOS] to Him that He might touch them; but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
**2 Timothy 3:15 - and that from childhood [BREPHOS] you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
**1 Peter 2:2 - as newborn babes [BREPHOS], desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,
**Luke 2:12 - And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe [BREPHOS] wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger.
**Luke 2:16 - And they came with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the Babe [BREPHOS] lying in a manger.

Now in these verses, the word “BREPHOS” describes a baby who has already been born. An infant child who is outside the womb. But there are two other verses that use this word:
**Luke 1:41 - And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe [BREPHOS] leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
**Luke 1:44 - For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe [BREPHOS] leaped in my womb for joy.

Notice that in these verses the same word used for a child already born is used for a child still in the womb. I believe this makes it clear that God considers the unborn child as much a human being, as much a person as the child outside the womb.

That would be in God's words, in God's opinion then wouldn't it.
And there are people here who defend murdering a baby, born or unborn, saying the murderer is not a murderer. These same really do not care when life begins, they need to sooth themsleves with the worldy lies.

 

[annsni]

A baby kicking in the womb is not proof life begins at conception. This again all depends on your definition of living. I don't call that which is in the womb living any more than I consider a person totally dependent on life support systems as living.

Wow - your definition of life is even later than the medical community. Life in the medical community is brain waves and a heartbeat. A baby's brain has brain waves around day 40 and the heart is beating at 5 weeks (this is counting from the LMP or last menstrual period - subtract 2 weeks for fetal age). So according to the medical community, a child in utero is alive at about 6.5 weeks.


As for life not being present when someone is on life support, then you are saying that MANY people come back from the dead every day. Why is it that the government sees that someone on life support is still alive until they are medically and legally declared dead (due to brain wave activity, by the way), yet you decide that they are not alive already? Interesting. I'm just glad the government hasn't listened to you.

 

[SBCPreacher]

That would be in God's words, in God's opinion then wouldn't it.
And there are people here who defend murdering a baby, born or unborn, saying the murderer is not a murderer. These same really do not care when life begins, they need to sooth themsleves with the worldy lies.

Fortunately, there is a very, very small group of Christians who feel this way.

 

[Gwyneth]

Would not Psalm 139 verses 15 and 16 help us to know when life begins ?
and, what about Jeremiah 1 v 5 ?

 

[Revmitchell]

Would not Psalm 139 verses 15 and 16 help us to know when life begins ?
and, what about Jeremiah 1 v 5 ?

If you misapply passages related to "breath of life" then no they will not help.

 

[rbell]

A baby kicking in the womb is not proof life begins at conception. This again all depends on your definition of living. I don't call that which is in the womb living any more than I consider a person totally dependent on life support systems as living.

Of all abortion thread posts I've seen, this is far and away the silliest.


Separate DNA, functioning brain stem, able to see, hear, react...but it ain't alive.

Absolutely stupid.

And since we're on Scriptural definition (and not mis-application), look at Psalm 139.



See...here's my thing: I'm quite bothered by your hesitance to admit that an unborn baby is alive. Why would you be hesitant? The only outcome from this is it makes rationalizing abortion an easier jump to make.

Also...this "breath of life" definition means that anyone on a respirator is, by your definition, dead.

No thanks.

 

[SBCPreacher]

Also...this "breath of life" definition means that anyone on a respirator is, by your definition, dead.

No thanks.

If we hold our breath for a minute, are we dead for that minute?

 

[rbell]

If we hold our breath for a minute, are we dead for that minute?

You want a straight answer? Don't hold your breath.

 

[Gwyneth]

Jeremiah 1 v 5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Psalm 139 verses 15 and 16
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

If you misapply passages related to "breath of life" then no they will not help..

Where is the misapplication ? I thought this was about killing life in the womb, there is obviously being/life in the womb for God to know it, even the substance from which we are formed is known to Him.

 

[Revmitchell]

Where is the misapplication ? I thought this was about killing life in the womb, there is obviously being/life in the womb for God to know it, even the substance from which we are formed is known to Him.

The misapplication was not directed at you.

 

[Marcia]

A child having down's syndrome will not kill a mother during birth - but 80% of the children who are diagnosed as down's syndrome in utero will be murdered.

Sadly, I believe the stats are actually that 90% are aborted.

 

[Marcia]

Two people voted that life begins at birth!

So what is the state of an unborn baby? Is he/she an object, non-human, dead?

 

[LeBuick]

Wow - your definition of life is even later than the medical community. Life in the medical community is brain waves and a heartbeat. A baby's brain has brain waves around day 40 and the heart is beating at 5 weeks (this is counting from the LMP or last menstrual period - subtract 2 weeks for fetal age). So according to the medical community, a child in utero is alive at about 6.5 weeks.

True, I believe I take my definition from scripture that life comes with first breath and ends with last breath.

As for life not being present when someone is on life support, then you are saying that MANY people come back from the dead every day. Why is it that the government sees that someone on life support is still alive until they are medically and legally declared dead (due to brain wave activity, by the way), yet you decide that they are not alive already? Interesting. I'm just glad the government hasn't listened to you.

Notice I said completely dependent on life support. The ones that come back usually are only partially assisted with sustaining life. What I am talking about is no brain waves, assisted heart beat, assisted breathing etc... My believe is pull the plug and trust God to do His work.

 

[LeBuick]

Two people voted that life begins at birth!

So what is the state of an unborn baby? Is he/she an object, non-human, dead?

None of those. They are a fetus. A potential life and a child waiting to be born.

I'm guessing you were being facetious...

 

[LeBuick]

See...here's my thing: I'm quite bothered by your hesitance to admit that an unborn baby is alive. Why would you be hesitant? The only outcome from this is it makes rationalizing abortion an easier jump to make.

All I can do is apologize if my views from the Bible bothers you and offer not to post in any further abortion threads. I'm not here to offend, just share with my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Also...this "breath of life" definition means that anyone on a respirator is, by your definition, dead.

No thanks.

Not so, respirator is only part of life support. I don't see assisted breathing as dead.

 

[LeBuick]

Notice that in these verses the same word used for a child already born is used for a child still in the womb. I believe this makes it clear that God considers the unborn child as much a human being, as much a person as the child outside the womb.[/I]

I have no problem saying a pregnant woman is with child. And I use the same word child for a pregnant woman as I do a young child. Using the same word doesn't prove the Lords view on anything but the word child.

Ex 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

The common understanding of the word "mischief" in this verse is child that is fully formed. So to translate, if you cause a woman to have a miscarriage and the child was not fully formed, you will be punished according to the husband and fined according to the judges. However, if the baby was fully formed and if the baby or the mother does not live then you shall be put to death.

If God considers life beginning at conception, why would He allow a different punishment for a fully formed fetus than he does one that is not fully formed?

I am making this a rhetorical exit since my presence and views in these threads bothers one of my brothers in Christ. I won't post in abortion threads any longer.

 

[annsni]

True, I believe I take my definition from scripture that life comes with first breath and ends with last breath.




Notice I said completely dependent on life support. The ones that come back usually are only partially assisted with sustaining life. What I am talking about is no brain waves, assisted heart beat, assisted breathing etc... My believe is pull the plug and trust God to do His work.

Life support does not assist a heart beat unless they shock a heart to return to beating. A heart must beat on it's own. Even a pacemaker cannot make a heart beat by itself.

 

[annsni]

I have no problem saying a pregnant woman is with child. And I use the same word child for a pregnant woman as I do a young child. Using the same word doesn't prove the Lords view on anything but the word child.

Ex 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

The common understanding of the word "mischief" in this verse is child that is fully formed. So to translate, if you cause a woman to have a miscarriage and the child was not fully formed, you will be punished according to the husband and fined according to the judges. However, if the baby was fully formed and if the baby or the mother does not live then you shall be put to death.

If God considers life beginning at conception, why would He allow a different punishment for a fully formed fetus than he does one that is not fully formed?

I am making this a rhetorical exit since my presence and views in these threads bothers one of my brothers in Christ. I won't post in abortion threads any longer.

I've honestly NEVER heard this argument. How does that line up with the other instances of the word used in the Old Testament? It doesn't. The word means "evil, mischief, harm, hurt" - and according to the Gesenius Lexicon, it means "harm, mischief, from which anyone suffers" from a root meaning "to be harmed". My understanding has always been that it is speaking of the baby living or dying - not how much it's formed. If the child survives, then he is to be punished as the husband decides. If the child dies, then it is a life for a life.

 

[donnA]

when a christian supports abortion it soothes the conscious to believe thats not a real baby, a real human, in agreement with obama they aren't persons at all. so murdering one isn't wrong.

 

[Marcia]

None of those. They are a fetus. A potential life and a child waiting to be born.

I'm guessing you were being facetious...

No, I was really serious. I was not clear on how you viewed the unborn baby if it is not a "life."