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Another "mark of the beast" discussion...

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Those who opposed the new teaching of The Plymnouth Brethren said they taught two second comings, one for the saints and then for the saints. To counter this they said it is one coming in two parts.

I still don't know where they get it, other than the rumors of the Darby and Margaret MacDonald connection.
I don't see it anywhere in Scripture, though I vaguely remember some of the line of thinking, punctuated with an occasional verse like Revelation 3:10 used in supposed support of it.
 
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HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Some Bible teachers lump four elements of Christs return to earth as The Second Coming, The Day of the Lord.

The Rapture (Harpazo).
The Tribulation
The Millennium
The Final Conflagration.

I believe J Vernon McGee was one.
 

David Kent

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Some Bible teachers lump four elements of Christs return to earth as The Second Coming, The Day of the Lord.

The Rapture (Harpazo).
The Tribulation
The Millennium
The Final Conflagration.
I believe J Vernon McGee was one.

Yes I read one of his books. He commented on the fact that there would be no more sea, saying that he looked forward to parking his car in the Pacific Ocean.
 

David Kent

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I still don't know where they get it, other than the rumors of the Darby and Margaret MacDonald connection.

Margaret MacDonald only had that vision after Edward Irving taught it, Irviing said he first preached on Dispensationalism on Christmas day 1825.and next preached on it on the same day the following year, (Morning Watch Magazine) This mag is on Google books but if you want to find the ref, you will have to read through the issues as I didn't make a note of which one it was, The link between Irving and Darby was Lady Powerscourt.
 

robycop3

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Ah Yes, but you are a futurist, and that teaching was invented by Jesuits to muddy the waters. It didn't have muhj effect until Irving and Darby developed it.

The jeezits invented preterism as well.

Can YOU prove those prophesied events have already occurred ?
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
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7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (The Roman Emperrtor)_ who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, (The Papacy) whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 [even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan(The Pope) with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (Roman Catholicsm)
12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
( 2 Thessalonians 2:7-12

BUT you omitted-
  • 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
  • 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
  • 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
  • 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
  • 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
  • 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
  • 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
  • 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Note the order of things. All those things will happen before our gathering together our gathering to the Lord.

Firstly the falling away from the faith.2ndlly the man of sin will be revealed (The Papacy) All those other things would follow before we gather to the Lord.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Paul told them privately, amd the early church told us what that was.

What a silly misinterp of Scripture!

Daniel, Paul, & Jesus himself all indicated "that Wicked, man(not 'men') of sin, son of perdition, beast from the sea" will be ONE MAN.

daniel 11:[/color=red]36 “Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done. 37 He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all.[/color]

"The" king, not plural kings, iwill certainly be one man.

The "desire of women" coud have very well been Tammuz, son of Nimrod & Semiramis, founders of the "mystery, Babylon" religion, a popular idol among women, including many Jewish ones. In any case, it was some sorta idol.

Rev. 13:[/color]5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. [/color]

("He", not "they"!)

The horse feathers that the papacy is the antichrist started in the 1646 Westminster Confessions when anti-RCC feeling was running strong in Britain. Before that, several individual popes had been called the AC, most notably Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia, papacy 1492-1503) who had many mistresses & children, & was involved in more than one murder.

No pope, nor the papacy itself, has come close to meeting all the SCRIPTURAL criteria for the antichrist. The TRUE AC must meet all those criteria to the letter.

Mr. Kent, I believe you need to study & believe Scripture as written for yourself & drop the goofy man-made hooey someone has told you!
 

robycop3

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Yes I read one of his books. He commented on the fact that there would be no more sea, saying that he looked forward to parking his car in the Pacific Ocean.

There are but three dispensations - the Old Covenant, the New Covenant, & the future world to come after God makes all things new.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The rapture won't be a "coming". Jesus will call us to Him, not Him coming to us.

John 14
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1) I will come again
2) and receive you unto my self/
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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Chilialism was not fuurism till the Jesuits, Irving and Darby. It was historicism which is what the churcjh 'fathers' taught. I have not come across their teaching on Jacos trouble, perhaps you could give a reference.Please.
Many of the Ecf held to a form of Historical premil viewpoint...
 

Yeshua1

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Site Supporter
The TRUE antichrist will declare himself to be God & greater than anyone/anything that's ever been worshipped before.
And the supreme irony is that the lowly Jesus of Nazarath will consume and destroy Him at His second coming in glory and in power!
 

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yeah, but only the Post-Tribbers will be around to see it.

You know this debate has been going on as long as I have been here... I have heard at one time it was a Social Security Cards, then it was scanners in store and now it is a so called chip... A lot on here think it is a literal mark but I tend to go with spiritual and not with a mark of technology and I will leave it at that... But I want to tell you a story about a friend of my wife and I.

In March it will be two years since our friend Red lost his wife... Now men and women lose their spouses everyday but its not that he did... It is how... Red and his wife Estelle live in Washington State and she was diagnosed with progressive Alzheimer's... It was the rainy season and they lived near a river and were both up in age, and decided they would take their dog for a walk... They were ready to go but because of the inclement cold rainy weather Red went upstairs to grab their coats but when he returned, his wife and dog were gone... So he went to the raging river to look but neither Estelle or the dog were found.

He looked around everywhere for her but to no avail... So he went to their sons' house who lived nearby and they both looked for her... Not only did they not find her their wasn't any sign of the dog either... They had both disappeared... The neighborhood hunt turned into town hunt, then city, then state, then state to state... It was all over the news... Estelle and the dog are still missing to this day... This tragedy has turned Red's world and the friend and family of this man upside down... Now to the chip, if Estelle would have had a chip implanted in her body (maybe wrist or somewhere else) then maybe they could have found her... Maybe that is in the future, not for evil but for good... Why is it that technology is by some considered bad?... This board that we access by our computer is a good site where we can discuss Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ with others but it can also be used to access other dark and evil sites... It is not technology it is the purpose of the one using it... Mark of the beast what is it?... Speculate all you want the Lord is the only one that knows the answer... Brother Glen:)
 
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