Another thing a Calvinist has never done.

[atpollard]

Just the ONE Bible verse destroys most of Calvinism. John 3.16

“whoever believes”
See John 10:26-27

 

[Dave G]

So you are admitting the sinners do have a free will

To choose to seek God or to come to Him for reconciliation?
No I am not.

I am admitting that we as men love our sin, willfully, and will not give it up in favor of coming to God in repentance.

 

[Dave G]

Wrong! What about the nuns and monks who do desire to serve and please the Lord even though wrongly.

If they desire to serve the Lord out of trying to gain His favor by their works, is that Biblical or not?
See Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:4, Romans 11:5-6.

Do people who approach the Lord out of a realization that their works mean nothing to God, and that their only hope of salvation is through the finished work of Christ alone... love the Lord ( worship Him in truth ), or do they show that they actually hate Him by trying to enter in by another way?
Christ said, "... I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ( John 14:6 )

If someone tries to gain God's favor by their keeping His commandments, is that salvation by works, or by grace?
Are they relying upon Christ's finished work on their behalf, or are they misunderstanding His work on the cross and are going about to try to establish their own righteousness by their good works?

The point being that they don't hate the Lord nor are they against Him

They are if they are trying to work their way into God's graces, SBG.
As men, all our works are as flilthy rags ( Isaiah 64:6 ).

Every effort that we make in trying to come to God is worthless.
Either one is saved by God's grace and mercy alone, or something that they contribute gains them favor with God over the efforts and desires of other men.

It's either all of grace, or it is not ( Romans 11:5-6 )..

 

[SavedByGrace]

If they desire to serve the Lord out of trying to gain His favor by their works, is that Biblical or not?
See Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:4, Romans 11:5-6.

Do people who approach the Lord out of a realization that their works mean nothing to God, and that their only hope of salvation is through the finished work of Christ alone... love the Lord ( worship Him in truth ), or do they show that they actually hate Him by trying to enter in by another way?
Christ said, "... I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ( John 14:6 )

If someone tries to gain God's favor by their keeping His commandments, is that salvation by works, or by grace?
Are they relying upon Christ's finished work on their behalf, or are they misunderstanding His work on the cross and are going about to try to establish their own righteousness by their good works?

They are if they are trying to work their way into God's graces, SBG.
As men, all our works are as flilthy rags ( Isaiah 64:6 ).

Every effort that we make in trying to come to God is worthless.
Either one is saved by God's grace and mercy alone, or something that they contribute gains them favor with God over the efforts and desires of other men.

It's either all of grace, or it is not ( Romans 11:5-6 )..

What do you think about

International Standard Version Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter began to speak: “Now I understand that God shows no partiality. Indeed, whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him in any nation.

Does what is right?

 

[Dave G]

Just the ONE Bible verse destroys most of Calvinism. John 3.16

Let's look at that together, my friend:
" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ( John 3:16 ).

Not withstanding that this is but one thing that God has to say about who is saved and who is not, how does one Scripture defeat other Scriptures?
This one tells me that God so loved the world ( we can look at other passages later that deal further with God's love for a people if you like ) that He limits everlasting life to only those that believe.

Questions:
But...doesn't God love everyone?
If so, why is He limiting everlasting life to a select group of people?

Back to your comment:
How does one truth found in God's word, defeat other truths as found in God's word?
John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:18:

" He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." <----- Those that do not believe are condemned already? Yes.

John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:27:
" John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." <------- A man can have literally nothing except it were given to him from Heaven? Yes. See 1 Corinthians 4:7 and James 1:17, as examples ).

John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:36:
" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." <------ He that believes on the Son has ( not "will have" ) everlasting life, and he that does not shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

Looks to me as if it's already been decided, SBG.
One has life and evidences it by their belief, and one has the wrath of God abiding on them and evidences it by their unbelief.



So, my question to you is, how can one truth about God's word destroy or defeat other truths?


John 3:16 is just as true as John 6:64-65, and just as true as John 17:2, which are all just as true as Psalms 65:4 and Acts of the Apostles 13:48.

 

[Dave G]

Does what is right?

Why do men do what is right, SBG, when there is none righteous ( Romans 3:10-11, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Romans 3:23 )?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Let's look at that together, my friend:
" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ( John 3:16 ).

Not withstanding that this is but one thing that God has to say about who is saved and who is not, how does one Scripture defeat other Scriptures?
This one tells me that God so loved the world ( we can look at other passages later that deal further with God's love for a people if you like ) that He limits everlasting life to only those that believe.

Questions:
But...doesn't God love everyone?
If so, why is He limiting everlasting life to a select group of people?

Back to your comment:
How does one truth found in God's word, defeat other truths as found in God's word?
John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:18:

" He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." <----- Those that do not believe are condemned already? Yes.

John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:27:
" John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." <------- A man can have literally nothing except it were given to him from Heaven? Yes. See 1 Corinthians 4:7 and James 1:17, as examples ).

John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:36:
" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." <------ He that believes on the Son has ( not "will have" ) everlasting life, and he that does not shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

Looks to me as if it's already been decided, SBG.
One has life and evidences it by their belief, and one has the wrath of God abiding on them and evidences it by their unbelief.

So, my question to you is, how can one truth about God's word destroy or defeat other truths?
John 3:16 is just as true as John 6:64-65, and just as true as John 17:2, which are all just as true as Psalms 65:4 and Acts of the Apostles 13:48.

Jesus Himself say God so loves the entire human race which even John Calvin acknowledged. And you say that God Almighty is wrong??? What a Joke

 

[SavedByGrace]

Why do men do what is right, SBG, when there is none righteous ( Romans 3:10-11, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Romans 3:23 )?

There again you know more than the Lord???

 

[Dave G]

Jesus Himself say God so loves the entire human race which even John Calvin acknowledged. And you say that God Almighty is wrong?

Are you saying that God is wrong?

" The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." ( Psalms 65:4 ).

" The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." ( Psalms 11:5 ).

" As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." ( Romans 9:13 ).

SBG, respectfully, if I wanted to see an all-loving God instead of weighing every word carefully, believe me when I say I would choose the verses that "are easy on the eyes and ears", rather than swallowing hard and choosing it all.

The same Jesus that His Father spoke through in John 3:16, is the same Word of God that spoke Psalms 5:5, Psalms 11:5 and gave every word to His apostles and prophets.

 

[Dave G]

There again you know more than the Lord???

Do you?
I know what He has revealed to us in His word, SBG.

John 3:16 is not the only passage in the Bible.
It has a context, just as all the rest do.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Are you saying that God is wrong?

" he foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." ( Psalms 65:4 ).

" The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." ( Psalms 11:5 ).

" As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." ( Romans 9:13 ).

SBG, respectfully, if I wanted to see an all-loving God instead of weighing every word carefully, believe me when I say I would choose the verses that "are easy on the eyes and ears", rather than swallowing hard and choosing it all.

The same Jesus that His Father spoke through in John 3:16, is the same Word of God that spoke Psalms 5:5, Psalms 11:5 and gave every word to His apostles and prophets.

John 3.16 is very clear to those who don't have a theological ax to grind. In Hebrew and Greek hate in this context means to love less. Like when the Lord says to hate our father and mother etc He does not mean in the strictest sense

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do you?
I know what He has revealed to us in His word, SBG.

John 3:16 is not the only passage in the Bible.
It has a context, just as all the rest do.

I don't base my understanding on theology which is what Calvinism is but on the Word of God

 

[Dave G]

John 3.16 is very clear to those who don't have a theological ax to grind.

I don't have a "theoolgical axe to grind"...I simply don't believe the way that most people like to use it to drape God's love over the entire human race, when the Bible doesn't teach that God loves everyone in His actions, nor in His words.

Again, if He loves everyone, why is He limiting eternal life to only those that believe?.

 

[Dave G]

I don't base my understanding on theology which is what Calvinism is but on the Word of God

I couldn't care less about John Calvin or his teachings.

I base my understanding of His word on what it says in every passage, SBG.
Not on what I would like it to say out of a few.

You can call me a "Calvinist" if you want to, but that is between you and the Lord.
We'll both have to answer for our words here someday.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I don't have a "theoolgical axe to grind"...I simply don't believe the way that most people like to use it to drape God's love over the entire human race, when the Bible doesn't teach that God loves everyone in His actions, nor in His words.

Again, if He loves everyone, why is He limiting eternal life to only those that believe?.

But John Calvin who was Reformed says on the word whosoever in John 3.16 that it means everyone without exception. Is Calvin the supposed father of Calvinism wrong?

 

[SavedByGrace]

I couldn't care less about John Calvin or his teachings.

I base my understanding of His word on what it says in every passage, SBG.
Not on what I would like it to say out of a few.

You can call me a "Calvinist" if you want to, but that is between you and the Lord.
We'll both have to answer for our words here someday.

Here is another Scripture for you if only you will hear what it says?

When God saw their WORKS, Jonah 3.10

Very clear

 

[Dave G]

But John Calvin who was Reformed says on the word whosoever in John 3.16 that it means everyone without exception. Is Calvin the supposed father of Calvinism wrong?

Do you really think that just because I agree with some of what he said somewhere,
that I'm in lock-step with him or anyone else?

Do you think that, for example, because John Wesley believed and taught that Christ is the Son of the living God, and that believers should live a holy life separated unto God, that I automatically agree with him that a person can lose their salvation?



No, SBG, I don't put any man on a pedestal and follow them because I think that I need their help in understanding God's word.
I follow my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and Him and His words alone.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do you really think that just because I agree with some of what he said somewhere, that I'm in lock-step with him or anyone else?

Do you think that, for example, because John Wesley believed and taught that Christ is the Son of the living God, that I automatically agree with him that a person can lose their salvation?

I have presented Acts 10. 34-35 and Jonah 3.10 and John 3.10. And you have twisted them all because you cannot accept what the Bible Teaches as it disagrees with your theology

 

[Dave G]

Here is another Scripture for you if only you will hear what it says?

When God saw their WORKS, Jonah 3.10

Very clear

You really don't understand the difference between works and grace, do you SBG?
The difference between the Law of Moses and its principles and framework, and His covenant of grace towards sinners through Jesus Christ are both quite different.

My friend, salvation and eternal life hinge on only one thing...
Christ and Him crucified for sinners.

The simplicity of Christ is that He died for a people, and salvation is by grace alone through no effort of our own.
The "whoseover believeth", from the heart ( not those who fall away from their "faith" in Him under trials and tribulation ) are those that He came to save.

I'm sorry that you continue to think that something that you do has put you into the grace of God,
and my only hope is that you someday come to see that God loves His people and casts those that he hates ( and who hate Him ) into Hell for their willful rebellion and hardness of heart...

Not those that he loves and has graciously changed their hearts to be soft towards Him and His ways.



I wish you well, sir,
and may God bless you with many good and perfect gifts.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You really don't understand the difference between works and grace, do you SBG?
The difference between the Law of Moses and His covenant of grace towards sinners through Jesus Christ.

My friend, salvation and eternal life hinge on only one thing...
Christ and Him crucified for sinners

The simplicity of Christ is that He died for a people, and salvation is by grace alone through no effort of our own.
The "whoseover believeth", from the heart ( not those who fall away under trials and tribulation ) are those that He came to save.

I'm sorry that you continue to think that something that you do has put you into the grace of God, and my only hope is that you someday come to see that God loves His people and casts those that he hates ( and who hate Him ) into Hell for their willful rebellion and hardness of heart...

Not those that he loves and has graciously changed their hearts to be soft towards Him and His ways.



I wish you well, sir,
and may God bless you with many good and perfect gifts.

WHY do the reformed hate the so called non-elect. This is SO AGAINST the Lord Himself!