Another thing a Calvinist has never done.

[Dave G]

WHY do the reformed hate the so called non-elect.

I have no idea, why not ask them?

Speaking for myself, I hate no man...and even though I understand that salvation is entirely of God's grace, my sincere desire, like Paul's was, is to see sinners saved.
I just happen to understand that it isn't my choice or my actions or my belief in His Son that determines who God decides to be gracious towards.

It's His grace and mercy alone ( Titus 3:5-7 ) that saved me, apart from any action of mine.

He saves and He damns, and we are all guilty before Him.
He can choose to save one, ten, 100, 144 thousand, or countless millions ( Revelation 7:9 )....

I have no say in the matter.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I have no idea, why not ask them?

Speaking for myself, I hate no man...and even though I understand that salvation is entirely of God's grace, my sincere desire, like Paul's was, is to see sinners saved.
I just happen to understand that it isn't my choice that determines who God decides to be gracious towards.

He saves and He damns, and we are all guilty before Him.
He can choose to save one, ten, 100, 144 thousand, or countless millions ( Revelation 7:9 )....

I have no say in the matter.

All sinners or only a few

 

[Dave G]

All sinners or only a few

Again, ( and I'm sorry sir to have to tell you this, but I feel that I must or it will remain unsaid ):

Apparently you see Him extending His gracious hand towards all sinners and leaving the choice to be saved up to us, while I see Him extending His sure hand of grace to those He has decided to do so from before the world began ( Ephesians 1:4-6, Romans 8:28-30, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Psalms 65:4, Acts of the Apostles 13:48, 2 Timothy 1:9, and many others ).

He casts into Hell those He has not loved and who hate Him and will never love Him as He is and as He has revealed to us in His word,
while He reserves His own to Himself through their belief and obedience to His Gospel.
He chooses who to be gracious towards, we do not ( Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:14-24 ).


Yet again my question stands...
If He loves everyone indiscriminately, why does He limit His love in His actions, to only those that believe?

Why does He only give eternal life to as many as believe on Christ?

If you are unable to answer that, then that tells me that you really haven't understood what the Scriptures have to say regarding election, predestination, calling and justification;
And haven't thought the entire thing through according to His word...
All of it, not just John 3:16 and a few others.



This is my final reply in this thread, sir.
As always, I wish you well and may God be gracious and merciful to all that read this by granting them His favor and gifts through the knowledge of His Son, Jesus Christ.

 

[Lodic]

Let's look at that together, my friend:
" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ( John 3:16 ).

Not withstanding that this is but one thing that God has to say about who is saved and who is not, how does one Scripture defeat other Scriptures?
This one tells me that God so loved the world ( we can look at other passages later that deal further with God's love for a people if you like ) that He limits everlasting life to only those that believe.

Questions:
But...doesn't God love everyone?
If so, why is He limiting everlasting life to a select group of people?

Back to your comment:
How does one truth found in God's word, defeat other truths as found in God's word?
John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:18:

" He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." <----- Those that do not believe are condemned already? Yes.

John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:27:
" John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." <------- A man can have literally nothing except it were given to him from Heaven? Yes. See 1 Corinthians 4:7 and James 1:17, as examples ).

John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:36:
" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." <------ He that believes on the Son has ( not "will have" ) everlasting life, and he that does not shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

Looks to me as if it's already been decided, SBG.
One has life and evidences it by their belief, and one has the wrath of God abiding on them and evidences it by their unbelief.



So, my question to you is, how can one truth about God's word destroy or defeat other truths?


John 3:16 is just as true as John 6:64-65, and just as true as John 17:2, which are all just as true as Psalms 65:4 and Acts of the Apostles 13:48.

Let's look at that together, my friend:
" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ( John 3:16 ).

Not withstanding that this is but one thing that God has to say about who is saved and who is not, how does one Scripture defeat other Scriptures?
This one tells me that God so loved the world ( we can look at other passages later that deal further with God's love for a people if you like ) that He limits everlasting life to only those that believe.

Questions:
But...doesn't God love everyone?
If so, why is He limiting everlasting life to a select group of people?

Back to your comment:
How does one truth found in God's word, defeat other truths as found in God's word?
John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:18:

" He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." <----- Those that do not believe are condemned already? Yes.

John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:27:
" John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." <------- A man can have literally nothing except it were given to him from Heaven? Yes. See 1 Corinthians 4:7 and James 1:17, as examples ).

John 3:16 is just as true as John 3:36:
" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." <------ He that believes on the Son has ( not "will have" ) everlasting life, and he that does not shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

Looks to me as if it's already been decided, SBG.
One has life and evidences it by their belief, and one has the wrath of God abiding on them and evidences it by their unbelief.



So, my question to you is, how can one truth about God's word destroy or defeat other truths?


John 3:16 is just as true as John 6:64-65, and just as true as John 17:2, which are all just as true as Psalms 65:4 and Acts of the Apostles 13:48.

Thank you very much for your detailed response. While I've been leaning toward the Reformed view, I've been having trouble understanding it. Your response clears up some of the questions I've struggled with. I still have some questions, but this really helps settle my views more firmly. I've recently started reading "What is Reformed Theology?" by R.C. Sproul. This is truly a revelation. Bless you.

 

[Noah Hirsch]

REPENT.

HE cannot repent. He cannot be in a bad state and say what I am doing is wrong I need to change my ways.

PAST TENSE. REPENT mean YOU change your mind. He cannot repent, God must REPENT.

Instead God has to zap him first into a GOOD state of grace, SAVED, And he can ONLY LOOK back and say I was bad. HE HIMSELF cannot REPENT.

He can't say sorry God for my evil heart, Only sorry God that I HAD an evil heart.


Acts 3

19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 2

38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Instead they believe the OPPOSITE ORDER.
Therefore let your sins be wiped away THEN you can repent.
Receive the gift of the holy spirit THEN repent

Orthodox Calvinists can. We should not confuse hyper-Calvinism with orthodox Calvinism.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Orthodox Calvinists

believe that "repentance" is a "work", and therefore not a requirement for a sinner to get saved. This is plainly against the Teachings of Jesus and the Apostles

 

[Wesley Briggman]

REPENT.

HE cannot repent. He cannot be in a bad state and say what I am doing is wrong I need to change my ways.

PAST TENSE. REPENT mean YOU change your mind. He cannot repent, God must REPENT.

Instead God has to zap him first into a GOOD state of grace, SAVED, And he can ONLY LOOK back and say I was bad. HE HIMSELF cannot REPENT.

He can't say sorry God for my evil heart, Only sorry God that I HAD an evil heart.


Acts 3

19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 2

38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Instead they believe the OPPOSITE ORDER.
Therefore let your sins be wiped away THEN you can repent.
Receive the gift of the holy spirit THEN repent

Bottom line: Whomever God wants to spend eternity with Him will do so!!

[Rom 9:18 KJV] 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Mankind has no roll in his eternal state. It is only the arrogance of the human will, starting with Lucifer, that thinks he can control his destiny.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Bottom line: Whomever God wants to spend eternity with Him will do so!!

[Rom 9:18 KJV] 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Mankind has no roll in his eternal state. It is only the arrogance of the human will, starting with Lucifer, that thinks he can control his destiny.

This verse does not teach what you suggest

 

[SavedByGrace]

Bottom line: Whomever God wants to spend eternity with Him will do so!!

[Rom 9:18 KJV] 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Mankind has no roll in his eternal state. It is only the arrogance of the human will, starting with Lucifer, that thinks he can control his destiny.

New King James Version Romans 11:30-32 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

This verse does not teach what you suggest

I disagree. That being said, what about: "Bottom line: Whomever God wants to spend eternity with Him will do so!!" and "Mankind has no roll in his eternal state. It is only the arrogance of the human will, starting with Lucifer, that thinks he can control his destiny."

 

[tyndale1946]

This verse does not teach what you suggest

No but this one does!

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I also agree with Wesley, if we were not chosen in eternity then Jesus Christ could not echo his final words

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "IT IS FINISHED": and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

If Gods love sought, grace wrought, blood bought are not contained in the work of Jesus Christ alone, then it is not finished!... Stamp that on the front of your Bible!... Salvation is 100% Jesus Christ!... Brother Glen

 

[SavedByGrace]

I disagree. That being said, what about: "Bottom line: Whomever God wants to spend eternity with Him will do so!!" and "Mankind has no roll in his eternal state. It is only the arrogance of the human will, starting with Lucifer, that thinks he can control his destiny."

Man controls NOTHING it is ONLY because of the Mercy Grace Love etc of the Good Lord that any human can ever be saved. In and of ourselves we CANNOT repent or desire to come to the Lord. It is the inner working of the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Gospel and His convicting that points the sinner to Jesus for salvation. From start to finish salvation is of the Lord so that He ALONE gets ALL of the glory

 

[SavedByGrace]

No but this one does!

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I also agree with Wesley, if we were not chosen in eternity then Jesus Christ could not echo his final words

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "IT IS FINISHED": and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

If Gods love sought, grace wrought, blood bought are not contained in the work of Jesus Christ alone, then it is not finished!... Stamp that on the front of your Bible!... Salvation is 100% Jesus Christ!... Brother Glen

One must return to John 3.16 which is the words of the Lord Jesus offering salvation to the whole human race and inviting all to come to Him for salvation. But sadly most will not come because most want it their way

 

[George Antonios]

REPENT.

HE cannot repent. He cannot be in a bad state and say what I am doing is wrong I need to change my ways.

PAST TENSE. REPENT mean YOU change your mind. He cannot repent, God must REPENT.

Instead God has to zap him first into a GOOD state of grace, SAVED, And he can ONLY LOOK back and say I was bad. HE HIMSELF cannot REPENT.

He can't say sorry God for my evil heart, Only sorry God that I HAD an evil heart.


Acts 3

19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 2

38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Instead they believe the OPPOSITE ORDER.
Therefore let your sins be wiped away THEN you can repent.
Receive the gift of the holy spirit THEN repent

Nothing like scriptural common sense to clear up the pseudo-intellectualism of Calvinism.

 

[MB]

Nothing like scriptural common sense to clear up the pseudo-intellectualism of Calvinism.

Common sense should tell you if there are no elected Gentiles in scripture then Gentiles are not elect.
MB

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Common sense should tell you if there are no elected Gentiles in scripture then Gentiles are not elect.
MB

[1Ti 6:20 ESV] 20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge,"
[2Ti 2:16 ESV] 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,

 

[MB]

[1Ti 6:20 ESV] 20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called "knowledge,"
[2Ti 2:16 ESV] 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,

Your irreverent babble has not proven that you are elect.. Put your sword away before you cut your self.
MB

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Your irreverent babble has not proven that you are elect.. Put your sword away before you cut your self.
MB

You now consider scripture verses to be irreverent babble.
What tangible proof do you have that you are or not among the elect?

 

[MB]

You now consider scripture verses to be irreverent babble.
What tangible proof do you have that you are or not among the elect?

I've never claimed to be elect. I'm not a Jew and I suspect that you aren't either You use scripture but you never prove a thing. I'm not elect because scripture never says Gentiles are elect. I do not assume what I believe there has to be proof in scripture. You and Calvinist like you claim you have to be elect to be saved which is not in scripture. You claim what I believe is false. Just because you ignore the truth. You falsely elaborate what you believe. Your not a Jew yet you claim to be elect. It's called replacement theology and it is false. This is why you can't prove it that you elect.
MB

 

[Wesley Briggman]

I've never claimed to be elect. I'm not a Jew and I suspect that you aren't either You use scripture but you never prove a thing. I'm not elect because scripture never says Gentiles are elect. I do not assume what I believe there has to be proof in scripture. You and Calvinist like you claim you have to be elect to be saved which is not in scripture. You claim what I believe is false. Just because you ignore the truth. You falsely elaborate what you believe. Your not a Jew yet you claim to be elect. It's called replacement theology and it is false. This is why you can't prove it that you elect.
MB

You say: "I've never claimed to be elect."

Consider these verses:

[Rom 8:33 KJV] 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
[Col 3:12 KJV] 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
[1Pe 1:2 KJV] 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Are you excluded because of your claim?

[Gal 3:28 KJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.