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Answering Atheists
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
Ever read George Whitefield's sermon, "Method Of Grace?"
Here is an excerpt:
The Bible is a sacred depository. What thanks have we to give to God for these lively oracles! But yet we may have these, and not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. My dear friends, there must be a principle wrought in the heart by the Spirit of the living God. Did I ask you how long it is since you believed in Jesus Christ, I suppose most of you would tell me, you believed in Jesus Christ as long as ever you remember _ you never did misbelieve. Then, you could not give me a better proof that you never yet believed in Jesus Christ, unless you were sanctified early, as from the womb; for, they that otherwise believer in Christ know there was a time when they did not believe in Jesus Christ. You say you love God with all your heart, soul, and strength. If I were to ask you how long it is since you loved God, you would say, As long as you can remember; you never hated God, you know no time when there was enmity in your heart against God. Then, unless you were sanctified very early, you never loved God in your life. My dear friends, I am more particular in this, because it is a most deceitful delusion, whereby so many people are carried away, that they believe already. Therefore, it is remarked of Mr. Marshall, giving account of his experiences, that he had been working for life, and he had ranged all his sins under the ten commandments, and then coming to a minister, asked him the reason why he could not get peace. The minister looked at his catalogue, Away, says he, I do not find one word of the sin of unbelief in all your catalogue. It is the peculiar work of the Spirit of God to convince us of our unbelief _ that we have got no faith. Says Jesus Christ, `I will send the Comforter; and when he is come, he will reprove the world' of the sin of unbelief; `of sin,' says Christ, `because they believe not on me.' Now, my dear friends, did God ever show you that you had no faith? Were you ever made to bewail a hard heart of unbelief? Was it ever the language of your heart, Lord, give me faith; Lord, enable me to lay hold on thee; Lord, enable me to call thee MY Lord and MY God? Did Jesus Christ ever convince you in this manner? Did he ever convince you of your inability to close with Christ, and make you to cry out to God to give you faith? If not, do not speak peace to your heart. May the Lord awaken you, and give you true, solid peace before you go hence and be no more!
Once more then: before you can speak peace to your heart, you must not only be convinced of your actual and original sin, the sins of your own righteousness, the sin of unbelief, but you must be enabled to lay hold upon the perfect righteousness, the all-sufficient righteousness, of the Lord Jesus Christ; you must lay hold by faith on the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and then you shall have peace. `Come,' says Jesus, `unto me, all ye that are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest.' This speaks encouragement to all that are weary and heavy laden; but the promise of rest is made to them only upon their coming and believing, and taking him to be their God and their all. Before we can ever have peace with God, we must be justified by faith through our Lord Jesus Christ, we must be enabled to apply Christ to our hearts, we must have Christ brought home to our souls, so as his righteousness may be made our righteousness, so as his merits may be imputed to our souls. My dear friends, were you ever married to Jesus Christ? Did Jesus Christ ever give himself to you? Did you ever close with Christ by a lively faith, so as to feel Christ in your hearts, so as to hear him speaking peace to your souls? Did peace ever flow in upon your hearts like a river? Did you ever feel that peace that Christ spoke to his disciples? I pray God he may come and speak peace to you. These things you must experience. I am not talking of the invisible realities of another world, of inward religion, of the work of God upon a poor sinner's heart. I am not talking of a matte of great importance, my dear hearers; you are all concerned in it, your souls are concerned in it, your eternal salvation is concerned in it. You may be all at peace, but perhaps the devil has lulled you asleep into a carnal lethargy and security, and will endeavor to keep you there, till he get you to hell, and there you will be awakened; but it will be dreadful to be awakened and find yourselves so fearfully mistaken, when the great gulf is fixed, when you will be calling to all eternity for a drop of water to cool your tongue, and shall not obtain it.
Here is an excerpt:
The Bible is a sacred depository. What thanks have we to give to God for these lively oracles! But yet we may have these, and not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. My dear friends, there must be a principle wrought in the heart by the Spirit of the living God. Did I ask you how long it is since you believed in Jesus Christ, I suppose most of you would tell me, you believed in Jesus Christ as long as ever you remember _ you never did misbelieve. Then, you could not give me a better proof that you never yet believed in Jesus Christ, unless you were sanctified early, as from the womb; for, they that otherwise believer in Christ know there was a time when they did not believe in Jesus Christ. You say you love God with all your heart, soul, and strength. If I were to ask you how long it is since you loved God, you would say, As long as you can remember; you never hated God, you know no time when there was enmity in your heart against God. Then, unless you were sanctified very early, you never loved God in your life. My dear friends, I am more particular in this, because it is a most deceitful delusion, whereby so many people are carried away, that they believe already. Therefore, it is remarked of Mr. Marshall, giving account of his experiences, that he had been working for life, and he had ranged all his sins under the ten commandments, and then coming to a minister, asked him the reason why he could not get peace. The minister looked at his catalogue, Away, says he, I do not find one word of the sin of unbelief in all your catalogue. It is the peculiar work of the Spirit of God to convince us of our unbelief _ that we have got no faith. Says Jesus Christ, `I will send the Comforter; and when he is come, he will reprove the world' of the sin of unbelief; `of sin,' says Christ, `because they believe not on me.' Now, my dear friends, did God ever show you that you had no faith? Were you ever made to bewail a hard heart of unbelief? Was it ever the language of your heart, Lord, give me faith; Lord, enable me to lay hold on thee; Lord, enable me to call thee MY Lord and MY God? Did Jesus Christ ever convince you in this manner? Did he ever convince you of your inability to close with Christ, and make you to cry out to God to give you faith? If not, do not speak peace to your heart. May the Lord awaken you, and give you true, solid peace before you go hence and be no more!
Once more then: before you can speak peace to your heart, you must not only be convinced of your actual and original sin, the sins of your own righteousness, the sin of unbelief, but you must be enabled to lay hold upon the perfect righteousness, the all-sufficient righteousness, of the Lord Jesus Christ; you must lay hold by faith on the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and then you shall have peace. `Come,' says Jesus, `unto me, all ye that are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest.' This speaks encouragement to all that are weary and heavy laden; but the promise of rest is made to them only upon their coming and believing, and taking him to be their God and their all. Before we can ever have peace with God, we must be justified by faith through our Lord Jesus Christ, we must be enabled to apply Christ to our hearts, we must have Christ brought home to our souls, so as his righteousness may be made our righteousness, so as his merits may be imputed to our souls. My dear friends, were you ever married to Jesus Christ? Did Jesus Christ ever give himself to you? Did you ever close with Christ by a lively faith, so as to feel Christ in your hearts, so as to hear him speaking peace to your souls? Did peace ever flow in upon your hearts like a river? Did you ever feel that peace that Christ spoke to his disciples? I pray God he may come and speak peace to you. These things you must experience. I am not talking of the invisible realities of another world, of inward religion, of the work of God upon a poor sinner's heart. I am not talking of a matte of great importance, my dear hearers; you are all concerned in it, your souls are concerned in it, your eternal salvation is concerned in it. You may be all at peace, but perhaps the devil has lulled you asleep into a carnal lethargy and security, and will endeavor to keep you there, till he get you to hell, and there you will be awakened; but it will be dreadful to be awakened and find yourselves so fearfully mistaken, when the great gulf is fixed, when you will be calling to all eternity for a drop of water to cool your tongue, and shall not obtain it.
....and as far as atheists are concerned....
There’s a story in the biography of George Whitefield about a man named Thorpe, who was a bitter opponent of everything that is holy. He and a group of his friends—all of them young, rebellious thugs—conspired together to mock and oppose George Whitefield’s evangelistic ministry while Whitefield was preaching in Bristol, England.
George Whitefield had severely crossed eyes, if you have ever seen a realistic likeness of him. And these guys used to refer to him as “Dr. Squintum.” They called their little gang “The Hell-Fire Club,” and they disrupted meetings, mocked Whitefield on the streets and in public places, and generally tried to make his ministry a reproach in their community. Whitefield’s preaching had already made a deep and lasting impact in Bristol, and these young ruffians hated him for it. So this guy Thorpe got one of Whitefield’s published sermons and took it to the local pub, where the “Hell-Fire Club” was gathered to drink together while they make a burlesque of Whitefield.
Thorpe was apparently pretty good at doing impressions, and he had all Whitefield’s mannerisms and gestures down pat. So he stood in the center of this pub and crossed his eyes and began to deliver a derisive rendition of Whitefield’s sermon. But in the middle of the sermon, the Word of God pierced his heart, and he suddenly stopped and sat down, trembling and broken-hearted. Right then and there, he confessed the truth of the gospel and gave his heart to Christ. His aim was to taunt and ridicule, but he accidentally converted himself! Or rather, the power of the Word of God penetrated his soul and cut him to the heart. He became a preacher himself and quite an effective evangelist, because he knew so well the power of the Word of God to penetrate hardened hearts.
Notice that the Word of God pierces to the very depths, “even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” It probes to the deepest recesses of the heart, no matter how hardened or how closed the heart might be. In fact, only Scripture can do that.
TAKEN FROM: http://stonethepreacher.com/2012/06/26/atheist-tuesday-the-hell-fire-club-loses.html
There’s a story in the biography of George Whitefield about a man named Thorpe, who was a bitter opponent of everything that is holy. He and a group of his friends—all of them young, rebellious thugs—conspired together to mock and oppose George Whitefield’s evangelistic ministry while Whitefield was preaching in Bristol, England.
George Whitefield had severely crossed eyes, if you have ever seen a realistic likeness of him. And these guys used to refer to him as “Dr. Squintum.” They called their little gang “The Hell-Fire Club,” and they disrupted meetings, mocked Whitefield on the streets and in public places, and generally tried to make his ministry a reproach in their community. Whitefield’s preaching had already made a deep and lasting impact in Bristol, and these young ruffians hated him for it. So this guy Thorpe got one of Whitefield’s published sermons and took it to the local pub, where the “Hell-Fire Club” was gathered to drink together while they make a burlesque of Whitefield.
Thorpe was apparently pretty good at doing impressions, and he had all Whitefield’s mannerisms and gestures down pat. So he stood in the center of this pub and crossed his eyes and began to deliver a derisive rendition of Whitefield’s sermon. But in the middle of the sermon, the Word of God pierced his heart, and he suddenly stopped and sat down, trembling and broken-hearted. Right then and there, he confessed the truth of the gospel and gave his heart to Christ. His aim was to taunt and ridicule, but he accidentally converted himself! Or rather, the power of the Word of God penetrated his soul and cut him to the heart. He became a preacher himself and quite an effective evangelist, because he knew so well the power of the Word of God to penetrate hardened hearts.
Notice that the Word of God pierces to the very depths, “even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” It probes to the deepest recesses of the heart, no matter how hardened or how closed the heart might be. In fact, only Scripture can do that.
TAKEN FROM: http://stonethepreacher.com/2012/06/26/atheist-tuesday-the-hell-fire-club-loses.html
convicted1
Guest
:jesus::godisgood::jesus::godisgood:
convicted1
Guest
All we can do is witness to them, present the Word to them, and if there's one of His elect there, they'll get the message.
convicted1
Guest
Brother winman, God works through means. It's called the gospel. We are commanded to preach to every creature. God does the rest Himself through our preaching and/or witnessing.
That doesn't negate winman's point. For God to do the 'rest' implies its not as 'all God' as your newfound doctrine teaches. At any rate, your statement can be turned right back around...
"God works through means. Its called the gospel response to free will. We are commanded to preach to every creature. God does the rest Himself through our preaching and/or witnessing"
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salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
Amen.:thumbsup: but I would also add, the Holy Spirit must quicken the word of God to the heart.
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It is no lie to tell sinners that Jesus has died for sinners. IT is not lie to explain that every single one who believe s will be saved. If you can get any non elect persons saved......by all means do. Explain to us how you or they know they are....non elect.
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convicted1
Guest
First off, none of us know who are the elect, but God does. He knows them because He chose them from the foundation of the world. He sent His Son to atone for their sins only, and not everyone w/o exception. Look at this passage in Hebrews 10:
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Believers are sanctified through the offering of Christ's body. So, if He died for everyone w/o exception, there are a bunch of sanctified/set apart sinners dying and going to hell.
Here is the usage of the english word used for sanctified:
I.
to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
II.
to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
A.
consecrate things to God
B.
dedicate people to God
III.
to purify
A.
to cleanse externally
B.
to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
C.
to purify internally by renewing of the soul
I see...so you don't be completely honest with them :BangHead: Partial truth is still a lie.
The gospel is not even for the 'unelect' in your soteriology. Sharing something with someone that it is not intended for is also dishonest....and don't give me the lame, throwing-the-hands-up excuse 'hey, we just do what we are told to do' as that directly implicates God in your devious, dishonest scheme.
Willis, my man, you dont think I have seen that 'proof text' and explanation before?
You didn't engage fully what I actually said, either.
Persuading and selling are not the same thing, Steve.
This is not a Jesus & me thing and then we will "getter done"....we are not saving souls/ that is God's domain.
Yes, and by that standard you are lying to your four year old when you don't tell him all the explicit details involved in the answer to his question, "Where do babies come from."
What a LIAR you are!
Do you see how unspeakably STUPID that reasoning of yours is?
You don't reveal truth to sinners that will choke them to death. They are not ready for the deep things of God.
Heck! Some of you on Baptistboard are not ready for it either!
But when you grow up then you can appreciate the wonder of how babies get here because you are mature enough to take it.
And when you grow up you will appreciate the wonders of God's invincible pursuit of his elect.
But you are just not ready for it yet.
We understand.
It took some of us years to grow to the place we were able to accept it.
EVERYTHING is God's domain, EWF. There is no one part that is our part and the other part God's part.
We don't tell and then God does his part.
Even the TELLING is energized and brought to pass by God.
But what you need to understand is that God has chosen to use MEANS to convert his elect.
Those means include persuasive arguments from the word of God that fall from the lips of his people.
That is a contradiction. You cannot say salvation is all of God and then say he uses means. If a preacher must be persuasive, then God is dependent upon the persuasiveness of that preacher.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
That is another gospel. Paul told sinners that Jesus died for OUR SINS.
1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Paul is recalling the very gospel he preached to these Corinthians. He had told them that Jesus died for "OUR SINS" speaking to them personally.
A Calvinist cannot honestly tell any person Jesus died for their sins. In fact, a Calvinist cannot possibly know that Jesus died for his own sins. How do you have faith in a "maybe"?
Calvinism teaches a FALSE gospel. It is not the gospel that Paul or Peter preached.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Some estimate there were as many as one hundred thousand Jews present at Pentacost, Peter told them the gospel applied to every single one of them, their children, as all that are afar off, as many as God shall call. And how many does God call? All men.
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
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I type this but use my fingers- well I guess since I use means it's not all me!!
Winman, you are a mess but you're funny!!
Hahahaha!