Answering Atheists

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I type this but use my fingers- well I guess since I use means it's not all me!!

Winman, you are a mess but you're funny!!

Hahahaha!

Can't help but notice, you didn't deny his point.

 

[Luke2427]

Can't help but notice, you didn't deny his point.

That's precisely what I did.

 

[Winman]

Can't help but notice, you didn't deny his point.

How persuasive could Luke be?

Luke- Believe on Jesus and you will be saved.

Sinner- Believe what about Jesus?

Luke- Believe that Jesus died for your sins.

Sinner- Did Jesus die for my sins?

Luke- I don't know, maybe.

Sinner- How can I find out if Jesus died for my sins?

Luke- You can't.

Sinner- Did Jesus die for your sins?

Luke- Oh yes, absolutely.

Sinner- How do you know?

Luke- Because I believed.

Sinner- Believed what?

Luke- That Jesus died for my sins.

Sinner- But how did you know Jesus died for your sins?

Luke- Because I believed.

Sinner- I'm confused.

Luke- That's because God hasn't regenerated you yet.

Sinner- Will God ever regenerate me?

Luke- I don't know, maybe.

Sinner- How do you know God regenerated you?

Luke- Because...

Sinner- Because you believed! Got it.

 

[Luke2427]

How persuasive could Luke be?

Luke- Believe on Jesus and you will be saved.

Sinner- Believe what about Jesus?

Luke- Believe that Jesus died for your sins.

Sinner- Did Jesus die for my sins?

Luke- I don't know, maybe.

Sinner- How can I find out if Jesus died for my sins?

Luke- You can't.

Sinner- Did Jesus die for your sins?

Luke- Oh yes, absolutely.

Sinner- How do you know?

Luke- Because I believed.

Sinner- Believed what?

Luke- That Jesus died for my sins.

Sinner- But how did you know Jesus died for your sins?

Luke- Because I believed.

Sinner- I'm confused.

Luke- That's because God hasn't regenerated you yet.

Sinner- Will God ever regenerate me?

Luke- I don't know, maybe.

Sinner- How do you know God regenerated you?

Luke- Because...

Sinner- Because you believed! Got it.

Hahaha! All that typing for nothing!

Your error began way up in line three.

 

[Winman]

Hahaha! All that typing for nothing!

Your error began way up in line three.

What? Are you saying a person can be saved without believing that Jesus died for their personal sins?

Please explain exactly what a person must believe to be saved in your view.

 

[webdog]

Yes, and by that standard you are lying to your four year old when you don't tell him all the explicit details involved in the answer to his question, "Where do babies come from."

What a LIAR you are!

Do you see how unspeakably STUPID that reasoning of yours is?

You don't reveal truth to sinners that will choke them to death. They are not ready for the deep things of God.

Heck! Some of you on Baptistboard are not ready for it either!

But when you grow up then you can appreciate the wonder of how babies get here because you are mature enough to take it.

And when you grow up you will appreciate the wonders of God's invincible pursuit of his elect.

But you are just not ready for it yet.

We understand.

It took some of us years to grow to the place we were able to accept it.

Huh? None of my kids have asked me that, and when they do I will tell them the whole truth. Strawman much?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That is a contradiction. You cannot say salvation is all of God and then say he uses means. If a preacher must be persuasive, then God is dependent upon the persuasiveness of that preacher.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Wow..... 1st time I actually agree with you. Fancy that!

 

[Luke2427]

Huh? None of my kids have asked me that, and when they do I will tell them the whole truth. Strawman much?

Hilarious! So when your four year old asks you wear babies come from you are going to explain male and female sex organs and how they work together and what happens when the mans seed enters the womb of the female?

How vivid are you going you going to be?

Will you use pictures?

You're a riot, WD!

 

[Luke2427]

Wow..... 1st time I actually agree with you. Fancy that!

That ought to be enough for you to feel the need to rethink your position.

God uses means. Nothing could be plainer in the entire Bible.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How persuasive could Luke be?

Luke- Believe on Jesus and you will be saved.

Sinner- Believe what about Jesus?

Luke- Believe that Jesus died for your sins.

Sinner- Did Jesus die for my sins?

Me, I would take the time to question & rephrase. for example, I would ask the "Sinner" Do you believe Jesus died for the whole human race?

The answer I would give him is : No, the Scriptures will not support that idea. Jesus said He came into the world to do the will of His Father, and that will was that He should save all who were given Him (the elect) even before the world began (John 6: 37-39). Jesus came to save HIS PEOPLE from their sins, and He did it (Matt. 1: 21; Rom. 8: 33, 34). He died for His sheep, not for goats (John 10: 15). He died for sons, for the sanctified, for the brethren, for the church, and for the children (Heb. 2: 9-15). He saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied (Isa. 53: 10-12) .

Sinner- How can I find out if Jesus died for my sins?

My Answer: Simple, the man who wants salvation already HAS it. The man who hungers and thirsts (desires it) after righteousness is a blessed character (Matt. 5: 2-6). The alien sinner doesn't want salvation, he doesn't fear God, and he doesn't love God; therefore we conclude that the man who wants salvation, fears God and loves God is a subject of grace (Rom. 3: 11, 18; I John 4: 10).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That ought to be enough for you to feel the need to rethink your position.

God uses means. Nothing could be plainer in the entire Bible.

And what position would you be referring to?

Listen Rick, its simple......there are really only two positions that a person can occupy on this matter. One is that salvation is by grace, and the other is that salvation is by works. It cannot be a combination of the two. I am the 1st (salvation by grace) & thats my full theological mindset. Its all of God, not man.

 

[evangelist6589]

All we can do is witness to them, present the Word to them, and if there's one of His elect there, they'll get the message.

Amen!! Thats all I do when I open air and my message is geared for the elect whom will respond to salvation. I have a competitor whom preached his "God has a wonderful plan for your life" message right after I open aired. He barley touched on sin, hell, judgment, the second coming, and the holiness of God. He only mentioned sin once, but constantly kept on talking about God changing your life for the better, and such. This is true, but only half true. God may call you to suffer!

 

[Winman]

Me, I would take the time to question & rephrase. for example, I would ask the "Sinner" Do you believe Jesus died for the whole human race?

The answer I would give him is : No, the Scriptures will not support that idea. Jesus said He came into the world to do the will of His Father, and that will was that He should save all who were given Him (the elect) even before the world began (John 6: 37-39). Jesus came to save HIS PEOPLE from their sins, and He did it (Matt. 1: 21; Rom. 8: 33, 34). He died for His sheep, not for goats (John 10: 15). He died for sons, for the sanctified, for the brethren, for the church, and for the children (Heb. 2: 9-15). He saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied (Isa. 53: 10-12) .




My Answer: Simple, the man who wants salvation already HAS it. The man who hungers and thirsts (desires it) after righteousness is a blessed character (Matt. 5: 2-6). The alien sinner doesn't want salvation, he doesn't fear God, and he doesn't love God; therefore we conclude that the man who wants salvation, fears God and loves God is a subject of grace (Rom. 3: 11, 18; I John 4: 10).

The scriptures show many people who will desire to be saved but are not.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These persons wanted to be saved, but they are not. And if Limited Atonement is true, Jesus did not die for these persons.

So, the fact that you desire to be saved does not mean you are elect. I have never known anyone that did not want to go to heaven, have you?

No, to be saved you have to believe correct doctrine. You must believe Jesus died for YOUR sins personally. That is the very thing you are depending upon, that is your claim to salvation.

You are trusting that Jesus died FOR YOU. If Jesus did not die for you, there is nothing to trust upon.

Calvinists just do not get it, if you do not know that Jesus died for you (and you can't possibly know that in Calvinism), then you have no foundation for faith.

 

[Winman]

Spurgeon understood what I am saying, this portion is from The Warrant of Faith.

I would like to carry one of those who only preach to sensible sinners, and set him down in the capital of the kingdom of Dahomey. There are no sensible sinners there! Look at them, with their mouths stained with human blood, with their bodies smeared all over with the gore of their immolated victims—how will the preacher find any qualification there? I know not what he could say, but I know what my message would be. My word would run thus—"Men and brethren, God, who made the heavens and the earth; hath sent his Son Jesus Christ into the world to suffer for our sins, and whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

You see, Spurgeon may have been a Calvinist, but he understood that a person must believe that Jesus died for "our sins" to be saved. You cannot have confidence or faith that Jesus's sacrifice will save you if you are not sure that sacrifice was FOR YOU. Oh, you can hope Jesus died for you, but you cannot have real faith or confidence whatsoever unless you KNOW Jesus died for you.

The fact you ACT like a Christian proves nothing, the tares look just like the wheat.

 

[quantumfaith]

Amen!! Thats all I do when I open air and my message is geared for the elect whom will respond to salvation. I have a competitor whom preached his "God has a wonderful plan for your life" message right after I open aired. He barley touched on sin, hell, judgment, the second coming, and the holiness of God. He only mentioned sin once, but constantly kept on talking about God changing your life for the better, and such. This is true, but only half true. God may call you to suffer!

You sound like a broken record at times. You seem to be immune sometimes to the sense of self-pride and self-aggrandizement that you communicate. The "other preacher" felt just as led and motivated to speak his message as did you. How do you know your message was "geared for the elect". Did you get some "word of knowledge"?

 

[Winman]

You sound like a broken record at times. You seem to be immune sometimes to the sense of self-pride and self-aggrandizement that you communicate. The "other preacher" felt just as led and motivated to speak his message as did you. How do you know your message was "geared for the elect". Did you get some "word of knowledge"?

If Irresistible Grace is true, that "other preacher" has just as much chance of leading someone to Christ as a Calvinist preacher. It is not the preacher or his argument that saves a man, but God's irresistible grace.

And what good is it to convince a man he is a sinner if you cannot tell him Jesus died for his sins?

 

[quantumfaith]

If Irresistible Grace is true, that "other preacher" has just as much chance of leading someone to Christ as a Calvinist preacher. It is not the preacher or his argument that saves a man, but God's irresistible grace.

And what good is it to convince a man he is a sinner if you cannot tell him Jesus died for his sins?

That is a "funny" thing about determinism and deterministic positions. But it can always be supported using some derivative of circular reasoning.

 

[Winman]

That is a "funny" thing about determinism and deterministic positions. But it can always be supported using some derivative of circular reasoning.

Yes, I was hoping my "spinning head" would communicate that.

 

[webdog]

Hilarious! So when your four year old asks you wear babies come from you are going to explain male and female sex organs and how they work together and what happens when the mans seed enters the womb of the female?

How vivid are you going you going to be?

Will you use pictures?

You're a riot, WD!

Who is this four year old you keep speaking of? If this make believe four year old of yours were to ask me that question I would explain its a very detailed explanation, and when they are older I will get into greater detail. How is that lying?

 

[Iconoclast]

webdog

I see...

Hello wd....It looks like you do not see it at all...But not to worry...I will show you why i say that:wavey:

so you don't be completely honest with them :BangHead:

To not be honest with someone is a sin.I am completely honest with those I witness to.
Here is what I posted before...that you claim to "see"...a lie, a half truth,and dishonesty...lets look together...I will post my previous quote in green;
I will now expand it for you showing the clear text of scripture that you can avoid as you like to do....:thumbs:


It is no lie to tell sinners that Jesus has died for sinners.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The apostle Paul taught this very plainly here...no lie my friend...truth:thumbs:
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

he speaks of the Covenant death without speaking in universalist terms....He just says sinners....not each and every sinner...but an open ended statement sinners who should hereafter believe on Him to everlasting life.....The very same truth you think you are defending.....

I can see some sinner in hell saying...WD told me Jesus died for me...why i am I here in torment then?


IT is not lie to explain that every single one who believe s will be saved.

jn3:1616 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

No lie...nothing dishonest at all.

If you can get any non elect persons saved......by all means do. Explain to us how you or they know they are....non elect.

You never answered this did you????

Partial truth is still a lie.

Show what is a partial truth???

The gospel is not even for the 'unelect' in your soteriology.

That reprobates spurn the gospel is on them....it is proclaimed to all men...Again this is scriptural...right here;

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death;


and to the other the savour of life unto life.

And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Sharing something with someone that it is not intended for is also dishonest.

You need to demonstrate that we have access to the secret things of God..

as far as I know ,every person that I bring the gospel to may be elect!
.

.and don't give me the lame, throwing-the-hands-up excuse 'hey, we just do what we are told to do' as that directly implicates God in your devious, dishonest scheme.

God's gospel is not devious...but Holy Wise and Just.