Answering Atheists

[Iconoclast]

Winman

That is another gospel. Paul told sinners that Jesus died for OUR SINS.

wrong once again winman....One reason you are always wrong is poor reading skills...you say Paul told sinners.....


Paul tells us he was writing to saints,,,look again my confused friend-


2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,
to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus,
called to be saints,
with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord,
both their's and our's:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

for the grace of God....WHICH IS GIVEN YOU:thumbs::thumbs:

no wonder you cannot recognize the true gospel:laugh::laugh: Do not let that stop you winman...keep opposing the truth!!!

 

[Winman]

Winman

wrong once again winman....One reason you are always wrong is poor reading skills...you say Paul told sinners.....

Paul tells us he was writing to saints,,,look again my confused friend-


2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,
to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus,
called to be saints,
with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord,
both their's and our's:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

for the grace of God....WHICH IS GIVEN YOU,

no wonder you cannot recognize the true gospel Do not let that stop you winman...keep opposing the truth!!!

Who said he was not writing to the saved persons of Corinth? Not me.

You don't get it (or you do and won't admit it), Paul is RECALLING the gospel message he had first preached to these Corinthians. This was BEFORE they were saved.

You see, you don't need to preach the gospel to saved persons.

When Paul first preached this message to the Corinthians, he had no idea who was elect and who was not. And yet he told all of them that Jesus died for OUR sins.

1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Paul is saying that he is declaring that gospel that he preached (past tense) to these Corinthians, which they received, and by which they are saved if they keep in memory what he preached (past tense) to them.

And that message he preached (past tense) to them was that Jesus died for OUR sins. That is what Paul had preached (past tense) to them.

Now you can try to distract and play all your games, nobody is fooled except for maybe a few very simple persons, but you are preaching another gospel, and someday you will stand before God and give account for this.

I deleted your little laughing smilies, because you won't be laughing then.

 

[Winman]

You see Icon, Paul and the other apostles told people that Jesus died for OUR sins.

1 Jhn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

You see here that John told his hearers that Jesus was the propitiation for OUR sins, and not for OURS only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.

Now, before you falsely try to claim that the "whole world" stands for the elect, all you have to do is look at the word "world" used in the very same chapter by John to see he is speaking of the unsaved persons of the world.

1 Jhn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

So, it is very easy to see in context that John is not speaking of the elect when he says "the world" in verse 2, yet Jesus is the propitiation for these lost persons.

You have been told now, you have no excuse.

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman

Now you can try to distract and play all your games, nobody is fooled except for maybe a few very simple persons, but you are preaching another gospel, and someday you will stand before God and give account for this.

I deleted your little laughing smilies, because you won't be laughing then.

[/QUOTE]

Glad you see it is another gospel winman...because unless you are saved by THIS gospel you will never see truth....YOU have another gospel and another spirit;
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


You have said this several times now...guess what???/ I believe you are correct...you have another...of a different kind: [heteros gospel].....another of a different kind....:laugh:

See I do believe something you posted:wavey:

 

[Iconoclast]

You see Icon, Paul and the other apostles told people that Jesus died for OUR sins.

1 Jhn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

You see here that John told his hearers that Jesus was the propitiation for OUR sins, and not for OURS only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.

Now, before you falsely try to claim that the "whole world" stands for the elect, all you have to do is look at the word "world" used in the very same chapter by John to see he is speaking of the unsaved persons of the world.

1 Jhn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

So, it is very easy to see in context that John is not speaking of the elect when he says "the world" in verse 2, yet Jesus is the propitiation for these lost persons.

You have been told now, you have no excuse.

You need spiritual eyesight.. your streak is intact.You have not gotten one verse correct this year:thumbs:

 

[Winman]

You need spiritual eyesight.. your streak is intact.You have not gotten one verse correct this year:thumbs:

We'll see who is preaching another gospel come judgment day. Your Reformed teachers won't be able to help you on that day.

 

[Iconoclast]

We'll see who is preaching another gospel come judgment day. Your Reformed teachers won't be able to help you on that day.

I see it right now...in your posts:thumbs:I will stick with the faith once for all time delivered to the saints...that you oppose everyday 24/7....

yes...I will align with the followers of the biblical Jesus...the puritans, reformers, Apostles, early church...the confessions and catechisms , of the believing church...not your novelties and absurdities...

You are a scoffer and you have revealed such all along.

 

[Winman]

I see it right now...in your posts:thumbs:I will stick with the faith once for all time delivered to the saints...that you oppose everyday 24/7....

yes...I will align with the followers of the biblical Jesus...the puritans, reformers, Apostles, early church...the confessions and catechisms , of the believing church...not your novelties and absurdities...

You are a scoffer and you have revealed such all along.

They won't be able to help you.

Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

You won't be able to blame the Puritans, or your many teachers on that day, you will give account of yourself only.

 

[Iconoclast]

They won't be able to help you.

Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

You won't be able to blame the Puritans, or your many teachers on that day, you will give account of yourself only.

You are an accuser of the brethren.Jesus has saved me from my sins.Your ungodly accusations cannot harm me.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

neither you...nor satan can bring any just accusation against me.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

ironically..you broke your streak here...you got romans 14 ;12 correct....

 

[Winman]

You are an accuser of the brethren.Jesus has saved me from my sins.Your ungodly accusations cannot harm me.

You cannot possibly know this if Limited Atonement is true.

 

[evangelist6589]

If Irresistible Grace is true, that "other preacher" has just as much chance of leading someone to Christ as a Calvinist preacher. It is not the preacher or his argument that saves a man, but God's irresistible grace.

And what good is it to convince a man he is a sinner if you cannot tell him Jesus died for his sins?

Actually I did mention that God so loved the world, but only briefly as I give law to the proud and Grace for the humble. Since DT Denver seems to be filled with many proud I usually approach them with the law. However I have at times ran into humble people (such as a homeless man) and for him I used the 10 commandments and then gave him grace.

 

[evangelist6589]

You sound like a broken record at times. You seem to be immune sometimes to the sense of self-pride and self-aggrandizement that you communicate. The "other preacher" felt just as led and motivated to speak his message as did you. How do you know your message was "geared for the elect". Did you get some "word of knowledge"?

No I preach on sin. Its not me but its what the Bible teaches!! The other preacher hardly preached on sin, and the tracts he was giving out just barley touched it. However the one point you are right is that I also have preached and passed out tracts like that as well, so I cant judge him for he may have the right motives.

An excellent devotional for today


Wednesday, October 16, 2013
Distasteful Sentiments



A great preacher once said, "I would rather hear it said, 'That man said something in his message that made many of the people think less of him; he uttered most distasteful sentiments; he did nothing but drive at us with the Word of the Lord while he was preaching. His one aim was to bring us to repentance and faith in Christ.' That is the kind of man whom the Lord delights to bless." He also said, "Ministers who do not aim to cut deep are not worth their salt. God never sent a man who never troubles men's consciences." How do you trouble the deadened consciences of a dying world? You preach the Moral Law coupled with the surety of future punishment. You speak of God's holiness and of His wrath. These are not things that the world wants to hear, but hear them they must if we want them to be saved. There goes another minute. Gone forever. Go share your faith while you still have time.

http://www.wayofthemasterminute.com

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No I preach on sin. Its not me but its what the Bible teaches!! The other preacher hardly preached on sin, and the tracts he was giving out just barley touched it. However the one point you are right is that I also have preached and passed out tracts like that as well, so I cant judge him for he may have the right motives.

An excellent devotional for today


Wednesday, October 16, 2013
Distasteful Sentiments



A great preacher once said, "I would rather hear it said, 'That man said something in his message that made many of the people think less of him; he uttered most distasteful sentiments; he did nothing but drive at us with the Word of the Lord while he was preaching. His one aim was to bring us to repentance and faith in Christ.' That is the kind of man whom the Lord delights to bless." He also said, "Ministers who do not aim to cut deep are not worth their salt. God never sent a man who never troubles men's consciences." How do you trouble the deadened consciences of a dying world? You preach the Moral Law coupled with the surety of future punishment. You speak of God's holiness and of His wrath. These are not things that the world wants to hear, but hear them they must if we want them to be saved. There goes another minute. Gone forever. Go share your faith while you still have time.

http://www.wayofthemasterminute.com

Im a fan of George Whitfield (obviously)....have you studied the guy?

 

[quantumfaith]

Love this quote from Ravi Z, that I just came across.

People are listening very carefully not only to the substance of your argument, but also to the demeanor with which you approach the issues.

 

[quantumfaith]

No I preach on sin. Its not me but its what the Bible teaches!! The other preacher hardly preached on sin, and the tracts he was giving out just barley touched it. However the one point you are right is that I also have preached and passed out tracts like that as well, so I cant judge him for he may have the right motives.

An excellent devotional for today


Wednesday, October 16, 2013
Distasteful Sentiments



A great preacher once said, "I would rather hear it said, 'That man said something in his message that made many of the people think less of him; he uttered most distasteful sentiments; he did nothing but drive at us with the Word of the Lord while he was preaching. His one aim was to bring us to repentance and faith in Christ.' That is the kind of man whom the Lord delights to bless." He also said, "Ministers who do not aim to cut deep are not worth their salt. God never sent a man who never troubles men's consciences." How do you trouble the deadened consciences of a dying world? You preach the Moral Law coupled with the surety of future punishment. You speak of God's holiness and of His wrath. These are not things that the world wants to hear, but hear them they must if we want them to be saved. There goes another minute. Gone forever. Go share your faith while you still have time.

http://www.wayofthemasterminute.com

If you "hear me" taking a stand against "preaching on sin" then you are not hearing clearly, or I am not communicating clearly. If you preach solely on peoples sin.......you need to make sure that your house is clean, or no one will pay attention. Yes, preach on sin and the deceit of the human heart, but do not ignore the other attributes of God as well. Balance.

 

[webdog]

webdog


Hello wd....It looks like you do not see it at all...But not to worry...I will show you why i say that:wavey:

To not be honest with someone is a sin.I am completely honest with those I witness to.
Here is what I posted before...that you claim to "see"...a lie, a half truth,and dishonesty...lets look together...I will post my previous quote in green;
I will now expand it for you showing the clear text of scripture that you can avoid as you like to do....:thumbs:


It is no lie to tell sinners that Jesus has died for sinners.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The apostle Paul taught this very plainly here...no lie my friend...truth:thumbs:
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

he speaks of the Covenant death without speaking in universalist terms....He just says sinners....not each and every sinner...but an open ended statement sinners who should hereafter believe on Him to everlasting life.....The very same truth you think you are defending.....

I can see some sinner in hell saying...WD told me Jesus died for me...why i am I here in torment then?


IT is not lie to explain that every single one who believe s will be saved.

jn3:1616 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

No lie...nothing dishonest at all.

If you can get any non elect persons saved......by all means do. Explain to us how you or they know they are....non elect.

You never answered this did you????



Show what is a partial truth???



That reprobates spurn the gospel is on them....it is proclaimed to all men...Again this is scriptural...right here;

14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death;


and to the other the savour of life unto life.

And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.



You need to demonstrate that we have access to the secret things of God..

as far as I know ,every person that I bring the gospel to may be elect!
.
God's gospel is not devious...but Holy Wise and Just.

It is a complete lie to say Jesus died for sinners without qualifying 'sinners'. We are all sinners and you do not believe Jesus died for all. Partial truth...dishonest.

Telling someone who you have no idea that can believe is disingenuous. Again, not the whole truth...but I understand why the Calvinist does it, they are embarrassed by the logical conclusions and implications for believing something so heinous.

 

[convicted1]

If you "hear me" taking a stand against "preaching on sin" then you are not hearing clearly, or I am not communicating clearly. If you preach solely on peoples sin.......you need to make sure that your house is clean, or no one will pay attention. Yes, preach on sin and the deceit of the human heart, but do not ignore the other attributes of God as well. Balance.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

:thumbsup:

I am saving this one, a rare moment for me.

 

[Iconoclast]

webdog

it is a complete lie to say Jesus died for sinners without qualifying 'sinners'.

It i s not a lie...because Jesus did die for sinners.Who said I never qualify the word sinners???? I start as simple as possible depending on who i am speaking with....young or old, churched or unchurched.

What do you think? I go up to a stranger and discuss infra and supra lapsarianism? The fact that all men are sinners in adam romans 3:23 makes it easy to qualify the term sinners.

In fact when I qualify the term I establish the necessity of understanding the scripture as the word of God,and how men have a natural aversion to it.
Sin has darkened their mind,and God must illuminate the word to them.

We are all sinners and you do not believe Jesus died for all.

1]yes...we are all sinners...agreed.

2]you do not believe.....what you or I believe does not matter...what scripture teaches is what matters.

3]you do not believe Jesus died for all.....correct! I believe the scriptures to teach that Jesus died for;

a] all the Father has given to Him

b] all kinds of men.....rich, poor, young old, kings, rulers, homeless,those in authority....
c]men and women...from all around the world...every tribe ,kindred, tongue and nation...worldwide...not the jew only.

d] for every believing sinner...but not all men who ever lived...the bible teaches no such error...so I do not believe that error.:wavey:

Partial truth...dishonest.

Full truth, full gospel, honest, and faithful to the word is the focus.
Not everyone we speak to is going to be saved.We are to be faithful to the word of God 2 cor 2:14-17 as I posted.The results belong to God ......life un to life, or death unto death.....we preach the truth no matter what.

Telling someone who you have no idea that can believe is disingenuous.

WD....look at what you just wrote???Where do you see anywhere in scripture where we are supposed to speculate or judge who can believe or not? seriously....the fact that I know God has elected a multitude of sinners...ALL KINDS of sinners....and he is seeking and saving them is the most exciting thing a christian can come to realize.
That God has elected and revealed that truth is his business.I rejoice in it,but leave that to HIM.
My job and your job is to get around sinners with the word of life, and be ready and looking to open up the truth of God as the Spirit will move upon ,or not move upon that person.That is the Spirit's work, not yours or mine.

Again, not the whole truth...but I understand why the Calvinist does it

,
I give the whole truth and your
cal-phobia does not let you see it.

they are embarrassed by the logical conclusions and implications for believing something so heinous.

I am not ashamed of any revealed truth.Benjamin tried{and failed}to make this same weak point.I take the conversation wherever it needs to go...
I start with God as creator, the fall,God's law, the incarnation, the cross, the blood, repentance and new birth,and judgement to come,and if need be the fact that God is saving a multitude of people...but not everyone is going to be saved.

I have at times spoken of what we know theologically as the 5 points...all 5 if need be....not a problem.In fact if you are not doing so...your message is defective at some point...and it would be you doing the lying that you are eager to pin on the cal.:thumbsup:

 

[evangelist6589]

If you "hear me" taking a stand against "preaching on sin" then you are not hearing clearly, or I am not communicating clearly. If you preach solely on peoples sin.......you need to make sure that your house is clean, or no one will pay attention. Yes, preach on sin and the deceit of the human heart, but do not ignore the other attributes of God as well. Balance.

What do you know about preaching on sin??? Those whom you hold esteem fail to do this so I will not take your words seriously.