Anti-vax thugs

[JonC]

We don't really know since no real figures are avail that show deaths and effects from the vax. In some places all were vaxxed and they got sick. That means 100%! The numbers do not exist that are honest or reliable for you to cite what any risk is. It is all a matter of belief, and many of us do not believe a word they say any more. In fact, we absolutely disbelieve them. Many of the known liar politicians and blabber mouths used to advance the tyranny are absolute liars.

We do know with what we have thus far. That is what we can use...not guesses about what could happen.

We know the unvaccinated covid patients are dying of the virus 1540% more often than vaccinated people with covid. We know that deaths possibly associated with vaccines are at .002% while unvaccinated deaths associated with covid are .05%.

Will the data change? Perhaps. But which way we do not know. We are not God.

As it stands your logic dictates the vaccines are safe, with very minimal risk.

 

[JonShaff]

But we serve an Almighty God, and those who have problems reconciling this truth - that God works all things for His good- do not change that truth.

The Scripture does not say "God works all things out for His good." It says, "God works all things together for the good of those who love him, who are called, according to his purposes." In context he's talking about conforming his children into the image of Christ as the ultimate good of all of God's purposes for his children. Paul wasn't talking about taking baby tissue and using it for the good of mankind.

 

[Andre]

Paul wasn't talking about taking baby tissue and using it for the good of mankind.

Well, as others have pointed out we know that God sometimes uses evil to achieve something good. So while you are speculating about what Paul would have thought of this issue, we have solid Biblical evidence for the principle that God can use evil for good.

 

[JonC]

The Scripture does not say "God works all things out for His good." It says, "God works all things together for the good of those who love him, who are called, according to his purposes." In context he's talking about conforming his children into the image of Christ as the ultimate good of all of God's purposes for his children. Paul wasn't talking about taking baby tissue and using it for the good of mankind.

That is the context I am using.

Vaccines were (obviously) not made with baby tissue. But they were tested against cells grown in a laboratory from fetus cells collected decades ago (fetal cell lines). Vaccines for Chickenpox, rubella, hepatitis A, rabies, and covid all involve growing viruses in fetal cells.

So I understand why you object to the testing process involved with vaccine development (not just the covid vaccines), but I believe the way you stated the objection may be misleading to some unaware of how fetal cell illness are used in vaccine production.

That said,

Christ suffered and died at the hands of wicked men. Yet God did not refuse to redeem man for fear it would somehow justify the wickedness of those men.

God used nations set against Him and His people, like the pagan neo-Babylon. This was not somehow an approval of paganism or the pagan nation. They still suffered while God used their evil for a different purpose.

Depending on your theology you may view the Holocaust the same way.

So the idea that God could not or would not allow good come from sins that occurred decades ago is not something, IMHO, that holds water.

 

[dad2]

You guys always do this - shift the burden of proof that you bear.

When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim

Your claim, your responsibility to substantiate.

What evidence is there that the covid measures have "starved millions to death"?

Not starved...will starve according to some.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ds-millions-people-toward-starvation-poverty/

WFP Chief warns of grave dangers of economic impact of Coronavirus as millions are pushed further into hunger | World Food Programme

 

[dad2]

We do know with what we have thus far. That is what we can use...not guesses about what could happen.

We know the unvaccinated covid patients are dying of the virus 1540% more often than vaccinated people with covid. We know that deaths possibly associated with vaccines are at .002% while unvaccinated deaths associated with covid are .05%.

Will the data change? Perhaps. But which way we do not know. We are not God.

As it stands your logic dictates the vaccines are safe, with very minimal risk.

No we do NOT know what we have so far. WE do not know true stats of things like how many got sick or died from the vax. We do not know how many died of covid itself. Etc etc. The stats cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We don't really know since no real figures are avail that show deaths and effects from the vax. In some places all were vaxxed and they got sick. That means 100%! The numbers do not exist that are honest or reliable for you to cite what any risk is. It is all a matter of belief, and many of us do not believe a word they say any more. In fact, we absolutely disbelieve them. Many of the known liar politicians and blabber mouths used to advance the tyranny are absolute liars.

Why have they not instituted autopsies verifying deaths. Shouldn’t that be a critical procedure to verify the cause of death?

If they are so concerned with getting everyone vaccinated, then why haven’t they eliminated the legal waver? After all, isn’t it the goal to make everyone comfortable with this (these) vaccines so we can eradicate COVID once and for all!

Why are there not alternatives to the current vaccines that could be used for people who cannot take what is currently being offered? I have both heart & lung issues and my wife is a cancer patient with a history of blood clots. So how is medical science addressing that?

 

[dad2]

That is the context I am using.

Vaccines were (obviously) not made with baby tissue. But they were tested against cells grown in a laboratory from fetus cells collected decades ago (fetal cell lines). Vaccines for Chickenpox, rubella, hepatitis A, rabies, and covid all involve growing viruses in fetal cells.

So I understand why you object to the testing process involved with vaccine development (not just the covid vaccines), but I believe the way you stated the objection may be misleading to some unaware of how fetal cell illness are used in vaccine production.

That said,

Christ suffered and died at the hands of wicked men. Yet God did not refuse to redeem man for fear it would somehow justify the wickedness of those men.

God used nations set against Him and His people, like the pagan neo-Babylon. This was not somehow an approval of paganism or the pagan nation. They still suffered while God used their evil for a different purpose.

Depending on your theology you may view the Holocaust the same way.

So the idea that God could not or would not allow good come from sins that occurred decades ago is not something, IMHO, that holds water.

I think most people realize that the vaccines are not the mark of the beast. They do seem to be 'a' mark of the beastly system though, that is moving in that direction at breakneck speed. Daniel did not pray to the idols in Babylon. God uses everything, and even the actual mark of the beast is used in that final period. That does not mean we are supposed to get it.

 

[dad2]

Why have they not instituted autopsies verifying deaths. Shouldn’t that be a critical procedure to verify the cause of death?

If they are so concerned with getting everyone vaccinated, then why haven’t they eliminated the legal waver? After all, isn’t it the goal to make everyone comfortable with this (these) vaccines so we can eradicate COVID once and for all!

Why are there not alternatives to the current vaccines that could be used for people who cannot take what is currently being offered? I have both heart & lung issues and my wife is a cancer patient with a history of blood clots. So how is medical science addressing that?

Something is rotten in Denmark.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, as others have pointed out we know that God sometimes uses evil to achieve something good. So while you are speculating about what Paul would have thought of this issue, we have solid Biblical evidence for the principle that God can use evil for good.

Evil like what? Like evil like perhaps creating a virus in a lab environment that could cause sickness, death and destruction to the worlds population and then marketing a vaccine to provide quasi reductions in infection rate... is that the kinda evil to which you are referring!?!

BTW, have you ever stopped to ponder just who is profiting from this?

 

[JonShaff]

That is the context I am using.

Vaccines were (obviously) not made with baby tissue. But they were tested against cells grown in a laboratory from fetus cells collected decades ago (fetal cell lines). Vaccines for Chickenpox, rubella, hepatitis A, rabies, and covid all involve growing viruses in fetal cells.

So I understand why you object to the testing process involved with vaccine development (not just the covid vaccines), but I believe the way you stated the objection may be misleading to some unaware of how fetal cell illness are used in vaccine production.

That said,

Christ suffered and died at the hands of wicked men. Yet God did not refuse to redeem man for fear it would somehow justify the wickedness of those men.

God used nations set against Him and His people, like the pagan neo-Babylon. This was not somehow an approval of paganism or the pagan nation. They still suffered while God used their evil for a different purpose.

Depending on your theology you may view the Holocaust the same way.

So the idea that God could not or would not allow good come from sins that occurred decades ago is not something, IMHO, that holds water.

I'm not saying God cannot redeem something evil and use it for good, i obviously agree with that--i'm born again

I'm just simply expressing the overall thought of the Romans passage in its context. Carry on lol!

 

[Andre]

Evil like what? Like evil like perhaps creating a virus in a lab environment that could cause sickness, death and destruction to the worlds population and then marketing a vaccine to provide quasi reductions in infection rate... is that the kinda evil to which you are referring!?!

BTW, have you ever stopped to ponder just who is profiting from this?

If you have any actual evidence to support these hypotheses, by all means present it.

Frankly, however, the notion that this is a deliberately engineered virus unleashed on the world to make some people rich really sound like tin-hat-wearing conspiracy theory material.

 

[JonShaff]

Well, as others have pointed out we know that God sometimes uses evil to achieve something good. So while you are speculating about what Paul would have thought of this issue, we have solid Biblical evidence for the principle that God can use evil for good.

I'm not arguing God cannot turn evil around for good. It would do you well to reread what i said.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Something is rotten in Denmark.

Something is rotten in the USA

 

[JonC]

I think most people realize that the vaccines are not the mark of the beast. They do seem to be 'a' mark of the beastly system though, that is moving in that direction at breakneck speed. Daniel did not pray to the idols in Babylon. God uses everything, and even the actual mark of the beast is used in that final period. That does not mean we are supposed to get it.

I agree that secular governments were involved (along with Christians who are scientists) with the vaccine.

However by that line of argument the use of money is more a "mark of the beastly system". So is the use of technologies like computers and the internet.

Were you speaking from a strict Amish position I would be more inclined not to see inconsistencies in the argument.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If you have any actual evidence to support these hypotheses, by all means present it.

Frankly, however, the notion that this is a deliberately engineered virus unleashed on the world to make some people rich really sound like tin-hat-wearing conspiracy theory material.

So because you can’t address these issues you dismiss them as tin hat horse manure... well I got news you, you loose. You loose the discussion, you loose the arguement, you loose any like ability you might think you cultivated cause nobody likes you anyway. But more to the point, you sunk your own battle ship. GOOD!!!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm not arguing God cannot turn evil around for good. It would do you well to reread what i said.

Don’t waste your time Jon

 

[Andre]

So because you can’t address these issues you dismiss them as tin hat horse manure... well I got news you, you loose. You loose the discussion, you loose the arguement, you loose any like ability you might think you cultivated cause nobody likes you anyway. But more to the point, you sunk your own battle ship. GOOD!!!

What in the world are you talking about?

In what sense, exactly, am I supposed to "address" your rather implausible implication that the pandemic has been engineered?

Why do I need to keep repeating this: your claim, your responsibility to support it.

And by the way, I am not here to be liked. I am here to try to minimize the damage to the reputation of the church wrought here by all the lying and other craziness.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What in the world are you talking about?

In what sense, exactly, am I supposed to "address" your rather implausible implication that the pandemic has been engineered?

Why do I need to keep repeating this: your claim, your responsibility to support it.

And by the way, I am not here to be liked. I am here to try to minimize the damage to the reputation of the church wrought here by all the lying and other craziness.

Then you should put a bag over yourself and take a plunge into the ocean. You “think” you represent something ... that’s the craziness! Seriously, what church are you representing? Your freaking funny. You are the Don Quixote of The Baptist Board. Charging at windmills...

 

[Andre]

Then you should put a bag over yourself and take a plunge into the ocean. You “think” you represent something ... that’s the craziness! Seriously, what church are you representing? Your freaking funny. You are the Don Quixote of The Baptist Board. Charging at windmills...

You would not be trying to divert attention from the very reasonable request that you defend your implausible claim of a sinister covid conspiracy, would you?