Any Here Hold that we are not born with a sin nature?

[Revmitchell]

Does this mean we are born sinless?

When it comes to infants I think we need to remain silent where God has also done so.

 

[alexander284]

Does this mean we are born sinless?

I only hope this isn't something he actually teaches or preaches in his church.

 

[AustinC]

When it comes to infants I think we need to remain silent where God has also done so.

But you are not silent as you have stated:
I hold to human depravity not total depravity. We have a sin nature but not guilty of Adams sin. We are only guilty of our own sin.

When you state we are not guilty of Adam's sin, that implies we are born sinless. How could we be born in sin if we are not guilty of Adam's sin?
I don't believe it is helpful to make an assertion and then say "we need to remain silent." You weren't silent. You made a statement. I would appreciate you showing how you make your assertion from scripture.

 

[Revmitchell]

But you are not silent as you have stated:
I hold to human depravity not total depravity. We have a sin nature but not guilty of Adams sin. We are only guilty of our own sin.

When you state we are not guilty of Adam's sin, that implies we are born sinless. How could we be born in sin if we are not guilty of Adam's sin?
I don't believe it is helpful to make an assertion and then say "we need to remain silent." You weren't silent. You made a statement. I would appreciate you showing how you make your assertion from scripture.

I don't really care what you appreciate. I did not engage you nor do I care what you think I implied. Since you engaged me I would appreciate a different attitude when engaging me.

 

[Yeshua1]

I hold to human depravity not total depravity. We have a sin nature but not guilty of Adams sin. We are only guilty of our own sin.

Are we born with that sin nature, or basically good until choose to commit sin?

 

[Yeshua1]

What tradition fails to acknowledge is the cause of the sin nature is the divine "knowledge of good and evil," Genesis 3:22, ". . . And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: . . ." And one of the reasons the incarnation did not cause Jesus to have a sin nature was that was also part of His divine nature being the Son of God, Mark 10:18, Hebrews 4:15.

The Virgin Birth was how he bypassed the sinful humanity nature!

 

[Yeshua1]

The cause of the sin nature is not divine knowledge of good and evil, but the disobedience of Adam in defying God's reveled will.

[Rom 5:19 ESV] 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

Adam and Eve did not even gain that knowledge until after the Fall!

 

[Yeshua1]

Unbelief. Genesis 2:17, ". . . the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: . . ." Genesis 3:22, ". . . the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: . . ." Did God lie? Did not Adam disobey? God is infinitly good. Man is finite and was made good. God cannot sin, man did sin by disobeying, causing all his descendants to become sinful. What knowledge did he cause his descendants to inherit?

The Fall of Adam caused the judgement of God against Him, as in becoming physically and spiritually dead, to be towards all in Adam!

 

[Yeshua1]

Well Jesus had to learn obededience, Hebrews 5:7-8.

In His humanity only!

 

[Yeshua1]

I’m not understanding?

At what point is one who is depraved not totally?

Just because one may know there is a North Star, and even can find it on a cloudless night, doesn’t mean that person is not totally lost and stumbling without light in a cave.

Perhaps you think of the unsaved as slipping into or sinking into depravity?

Is it not rather the estate of one already judged awaiting the executioner or is it one is still in the courtroom pleading not guilty?

Dwelling in darkness (cave) the execution date set has what more than total depravation?

Could you give something to illustrate your thinking in contrast so I might understand how you arrive at “human depravity not total depravity?”

Are we kind of spiritually sorta alive then?

 

[Yeshua1]

My explanation I gave affrims Romans 5:19.

Let me get your view correct, are you saying man's sinful nature is the inheritance of disobedience?

Its being found in Adam and sharing his same judgement as in the Fall!

 

[Yeshua1]

But you are not silent as you have stated:
I hold to human depravity not total depravity. We have a sin nature but not guilty of Adams sin. We are only guilty of our own sin.

When you state we are not guilty of Adam's sin, that implies we are born sinless. How could we be born in sin if we are not guilty of Adam's sin?
I don't believe it is helpful to make an assertion and then say "we need to remain silent." You weren't silent. You made a statement. I would appreciate you showing how you make your assertion from scripture.

Paul made it really clear when he stated all in Adam suffer spiritual death, and all in Christ spiritual life!

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't really care what you appreciate. I did not engage you nor do I care what you think I implied. Since you engaged me I would appreciate a different attitude when engaging me.

Are babies born innocent and so go to heaven if die, or born as sinners, but grace of God covers their sins?

 

[Yeshua1]

I only hope this isn't something he actually teaches or preaches in his church.

We are all then born saved, and then when we choose to really sin lose it?

 

[37818]

Man's sin nature is a direct result of Adam breaking the covenant he had with God. Humanity now falls under the curse of that broken covenant.

God is a covenant making God.

So are you too denying the role of the inherited knowledge of good and evil plays in mankinds sin nature? Genesis 2'17.

 

[Yeshua1]

So are you too denying the role of inherited knoledge of good and evil plays in mankinds sin nature? Genesis 2'17.

We are born in likeness and image of Adam, that is why have sin nature!

 

[Revmitchell]

Are babies born innocent and so go to heaven if die, or born as sinners, but grace of God covers their sins?

What specifically does scripture say directly about babies?

If you are going to argue for universal condemnation (guilty of Adams sin,) then do you also hold to universal justification? If not how can you line that inconsistency up with scripture?

 

[Yeshua1]

What specifically does scripture say directly about babies?

If you are going to argue for universal condemnation (guilty of Adams sin,) then do you also hold to universal justification? If not how can you line that inconsistency up with scripture?

I hold that God has provided in the death of Jesus provisionsto account for sins of babies and infants.

 

[AustinC]

I don't really care what you appreciate. I did not engage you nor do I care what you think I implied. Since you engaged me I would appreciate a different attitude when engaging me.

You made your statement public for all. If you only want one person to talk with you, go have a PM with that person.
You obviously care, you responded.
Second, my attitude is a very simple question, which you now are refusing to answer.
I would appreciate a different attitude when you engage me. Thank you.

 

[AustinC]

Are babies born innocent and so go to heaven if die, or born as sinners, but grace of God covers their sins?

I don't think Rev will answer. He recognizes the position he is in and thus he will not answer.
I'm fine if he doesn't answer. His silence speaks for itself.