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ANY prominent Christians teachers/pastors Hold to Modulism?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Is that to imply that confessional belief in the Trinity is a fundamental to the faith, and therefore a "gospel issue"??? I ask b/c I believe it to be a major part of Christianity, but I'm not sure I can square it w/ another gospel of sorts. Heresy, yes. But to what extent, I do not know.
It is the same as the Mormons saying Jesus was created. It is another God and another gospel.
Is 'Trinity' found in the bible?
'Godhead' is used twice as is here:
for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, Col 2:9
Compare:
http://bible.cc/colossians/2-9.htm
When we get to heaven will we see three distinct entities or one?
I say one.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
B/c if there truly is a distinction between the persons of the Godhead, then your presentation lacks that distinction and thus blurs the essential characteristic of the doctrine of the Trinity. You presented 1 person in 3 modes. But the Bible definitely presents 3 persons.
My problem is that I make such a distinction between the 3 persons and their functions (and positional subordination) that I have a hard time distancing myself from tri-theism. This is a simple public confession of something I struggle with. I admit that I have a hard time grasping the 1 substance/essence God subsisting in 3 persons coequal in essence and substance yet distinct in personhood and position. But I believe it to be the most consistent w/ Scripture and orthodox Christianity, so I confess the belief. It doesn't have to fully square in my mind to believe it. It does make it harder though.
BTW... as to the OP... though they are not teachers, Philips, Craig, and Dean are oneness pentecostals.
When we get to heaven will we see three distinct entities or one?
New International Version (©1984)
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
New Living Translation (©2007)
For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
English Standard Version (©2001)
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
International Standard Version (©2008)
because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For all The Fullness of The Deity dwells in him bodily.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
All of God lives in Christ's body,
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For in him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily.
American King James Version
For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
American Standard Version
for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Douay-Rheims Bible
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally;
Darby Bible Translation
For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily;
English Revised Version
for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Webster's Bible Translation
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Weymouth New Testament
For it is in Christ that the fulness of God's nature dwells embodied, and in Him you are made complete,
World English Bible
For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily,
Young's Literal Translation
because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
New International Version (©1984)
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
New Living Translation (©2007)
For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
English Standard Version (©2001)
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
International Standard Version (©2008)
because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For all The Fullness of The Deity dwells in him bodily.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
All of God lives in Christ's body,
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For in him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily.
American King James Version
For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
American Standard Version
for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Douay-Rheims Bible
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally;
Darby Bible Translation
For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily;
English Revised Version
for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Webster's Bible Translation
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Weymouth New Testament
For it is in Christ that the fulness of God's nature dwells embodied, and in Him you are made complete,
World English Bible
For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily,
Young's Literal Translation
because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Admittedly, I know extremely little of Modalism, but I fail to see a serious threat to the religion of Jesus Christ in it.
[edit] Actually, I don't percieve even the slightest of threat in it. Some sacred cows threatened maybe, but not the pure religion of Christ.
[edit] Actually, I don't percieve even the slightest of threat in it. Some sacred cows threatened maybe, but not the pure religion of Christ.
Last edited by a moderator:
FYI:
Is a Baptist view of the Trinity the only correct view? Dec 2010
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=68932&highlight=Larry+father+children
Is a Baptist view of the Trinity the only correct view? Dec 2010
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=68932&highlight=Larry+father+children
If it is a gospel issue then our Baptist Churches better get busy teaching a fuller understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. I suspect the majority of the members of any Baptist church would not be able to describe the Trinity with any understanding. At best they would get the answer correct through repeating the doctrine by rote. Many would use modalist terminology to describe what they think they believe. They wouldn’t call it "Jesus only oneness", but one God manifest as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
OK, this is wrong and IS probably dangerous:
"....modalism teaches that God is one but appeared in three different forms of modes at different times. God was Father in the OT, Son during the earthly ministry, and now appears as Holy Spirit."
http://michaelrjones.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/what-modalism-is-why-its-wrong-and-why-its-dangerous/
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and to-day, yea and for ever. Heb 13:8
"....modalism teaches that God is one but appeared in three different forms of modes at different times. God was Father in the OT, Son during the earthly ministry, and now appears as Holy Spirit."
http://michaelrjones.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/what-modalism-is-why-its-wrong-and-why-its-dangerous/
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and to-day, yea and for ever. Heb 13:8
Yes, this view of God does not square with Jesus Praying to the Father, and sending the Holy Spirit. Neither does this:
I'm curious, do you make a clear distinction between Yahweh and Elohim? If so, what is it?
There are 3 seperate and distinct persons who together make up the Godhead!
father is God, and is jesus, and is Holy Spirit 3 seperate beings yet still ONE God!
That view you opresented is NOT the biblical view of trinity!
the 'correct' view is the biblical one, that God is three seperate and distinct beings, yet all 3 are God, and God is One God!
As briefly and concisely as possible, build your case from scripture.
I'm Larry, and I'm only one, but I exist at one and the same time as father, son, and husband, depending entirely upon the role I'm in. How is this inconsistent with the doctrine of the Trinity?
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
When Jesus referred to the Father, He referred to a Person. When Jesus spoke to the Father, He was speaking to a Person just as such dialogue indicates. Jesus was not speaking to Himself, He was speaking to another person.
Do you as "Larry the father of my children" speak to "Larry the son of my father" as one person to another person? If your reply is a humorous allusion to "talking to myself" in a schizophrenic fashion, would you really seriously suggest that John the Apostle intended his readers to understand the language of Jesus as speaking to Himself?
Which falls short of reality concerning God.
An egg is only one egg but is made up of the yolk, the shell, and the whites. Each serves individual purposes but there is only one egg. Jesus prays to the Father(John 17:1) which means they were in two different places at the same time. Jesus said that He and the Father were both working (John 5:17). Jesus said that when He left the Holy Spirit would come (John 16:7). These passages alone show that there are three different entities involved in the Godhead.
Correction: God is One Being shared by three Persons. I understand what you are trying to say, but you need to distinguish between being (ontology) and person (identity).
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same ontological being. The distinction is in the persons that exhaustively share the one being of God. Only God can have His singular being shared by more than one person. We only have our being shared by one person. Those who are otherwise live in rubber rooms.