Any such thing as Satan's music?

[JonathanDT]

Originally posted by Su Wei:
With all due respect to your father, and all the preaching you've received, i know what i said sounds terrible but to say that one cannot judge another because you don't know the person first hand is not biblical either.

1 Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,...

Paul was not in the church of Corinth but wrote 16 chapters lamblasting the church for their childish christianity.

You're misrepresenting this verse. Paul received firsthand reports about the people to whom this letter was written, not a couple paragraphs written on a message board. And it was serious stuff, such as incest!
As for being able to judge a fellow believer, remember what James said?
James 4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.
12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?
Paul was an apostle, a direct emissary of Christ himself. If he wrote a letter to me telling me I was sinning, believe me, I would listen. However, no offense, but somehow coming from you it just wouldn't have the same effect.

if one is calling himself a christian and going to a pub and has no discernment about what God thinks about it.. i don't have to know what he eats for breakfast to say he is not walking in the will of God.

I hate to tell you, but some pretty Godly people have hung out with sinners. For starters, God himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Maybe you didn't know, but some pretty Godly people have drunk alcohol. For starters God himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Maybe it's a matter of personal conviction, but I just don't see a problem going to pubs if proper behavior is exhibited. I've never gone myself, but if a fellow believer wanted to go, I don't believe that it is my place to judge him.
God Bless,
`JD

 

[JonathanDT]

TravelSong, once again, you have hit it directly. I would liken it to a bully. Why does the bully pick on other people? Because it makes him feel superior. By putting others down, he raises his own self worth in his own eyes and by his own perception in others eyes as well. FWIW, I don't think that this is purposeful.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by JonathanDT:
I hate to tell you, but some pretty Godly people have hung out with sinners. For starters, God himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Maybe you didn't know, but some pretty Godly people have drunk alcohol. For starters God himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Maybe it's a matter of personal conviction, but I just don't see a problem going to pubs if proper behavior is exhibited. I've never gone myself, but if a fellow believer wanted to go, I don't believe that it is my place to judge him.

What I find so ironic is that the people who think you're reprobate for going into a pub (by the way, did you notice that he didn't even ask what I did there before he condemned me?) have no trouble with having books by Lewis or Chesterton on their shelf.

 

[Travelsong]

Originally posted by Su Wei:
I don't see honest sprit here other than one that is belittling and wanting to pick a fight. i've read Enda's reply and that's a good biblical illustration to the point i was making about Thaipusam. thanks!

Interesting. Have I once attacked your person? Exactly how have I demonstrated a desire to belittle you? If you are here in such a spirit of love and concern for the well being of your brothers and sisters in Christ, why do you decide to bail at such a critical juncture?

We are not discussing whether or not it is sinful for you or enda to listen to certain styles of music. I wouldn't dare to presume the state of your conscience with respect to individual Christian liberties.I do promise however that if we by chance one day happen to be riding in the same car or in some other setting where there is a stereo, I will respect your feelings on the matter and restrict our music to whatever you feel is appropriate.Okay?

In any case, the discussion is about whether or not there are musical styles which are inherently sinful.You have repeatedly asserted that there are, and yet you have failed on every level to demonstrate the truth of this assertion.If you honestly desire to persuade people like myself, Mike, and Jonathan, then it behooves you to at least make an attempt to withstand the test of scrutiny.All truth withstands such testing, why should yours be any different?

If your intention is to bail because you cannot finish what you started, at least be honest and say so rather than backing out while finger pointing.I'm not attacking the person, only the idea.You need to learn to make that distinction.

 

[Travelsong]

I just noticed that Mike Jonathan and myself all live within a 150 or 200 mile radius of eachother Jonathan is in Bucks, I'm in Saylorsburg (The Pocono's), and Mike is in the concrete jungle of Newark. Maybe north east coast Christians have a greater tendency of living in the flesh than our counterparts of more holy geographic locations.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Travelsong:
and Mike is in the concrete jungle of Newark. Maybe north east coast Christians have a greater tendency of living in the flesh than our counterparts of more holy geographic locations.

Actually, that should be the cornfield jungles of Newark, Delaware. Still about the same distance away from you guys, though.

 

[Su Wei]

Originally posted by JonathanDT:
You're misrepresenting this verse. Paul received firsthand reports about the people to whom this letter was written, not a couple paragraphs written on a message board. And it was serious stuff, such as incest!

If you watched on the news a teenager caught for the murder of his mother, you would condemn him without knowing who he is.
As for spritual matters, God has laid down His laws, and we can judge even when we are not present.

the couple of paragraphs were first hand admissions about going to the pub. THat was the only point i was talking about.

The problem is not that you don't think i have the "right" to judge without knowing the person, the problem is that you think incest is less of a sin than going to the pub.

I hate to tell you, but some pretty Godly people have hung out with sinners. For starters, God himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Maybe you didn't know, but some pretty Godly people have drunk alcohol. For starters God himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Maybe it's a matter of personal conviction, but I just don't see a problem going to pubs if proper behavior is exhibited. I've never gone myself, but if a fellow believer wanted to go, I don't believe that it is my place to judge him.
God Bless,
`JD

I hate to you that you've just called Jesus a sinner because alchol is an abomination to God. But wine is another issue so i will not dwell there.

Jesus loved sinners but He hates sin.

Do you know what Biblical Separation is? God desires for us to be as far away from sin as heaven is uncontaminated by hell. Rabid or not, this is what's expressed throughout the Word of God. make no mistake.

 

[Su Wei]

Travelsong, as you have already seen , i am not short of words nor am i chickening out because the points i'm making can't stand up to scrutiny.

shoes in the dryer obviously are not evil, so i take it you were trying to be condescending there.

i am biting my tongue not answering some of the ridiculous character portraits done by you guys. PLease....
good old Siggy knows better now most of what he said was rubbish.

I consider it more of a test of character to swallow my pride, be quiet and let God judge and convict.

 

[timothy 1769]

Do you know what Biblical Separation is? God desires for us to be as far away from sin as heaven is uncontaminated by hell. Rabid or not, this is what's expressed throughout the Word of God. make no mistake.

i think you overstate things somewhat (or perhaps i am misunderstanding what you are saying):

1 corinthians chapter 5

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[Su Wei]

to the good pastor, rufus, i hope you don't see the last few pages as leaving your question because, you must see that Separation is a very central doctrine to this issue of music.

A slide in music standards will cause a slide in preaching standards. Satan is attacking the church and he is going through the backdoor of music. This is his device and we have to be vigilant and wake up and learn the lesson. Never compromise the purity of the church by letting worldliness in the door through music.

 

[Su Wei]

Originally posted by am ha'aretz:
Do you know what Biblical Separation is? God desires for us to be as far away from sin as heaven is uncontaminated by hell. Rabid or not, this is what's expressed throughout the Word of God. make no mistake.

i think you overstate things somewhat (or perhaps i am misunderstanding what you are saying):

1 corinthians chapter 5

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

and your point is...?

 

[timothy 1769]

i can understand wanting to be as far as possible from sinning, but not as far as possible from sin - sin is where the action is, evangelistically speaking.

it appears in this epistle that paul is telling us there is no command to not associate with unregenerate sinners.

 

[Su Wei]

yes, i would reach sinners, as many as i can, but not at places that would spoil my testimony or where i might fall into sin and temptation as my own flesh is weak.

And i would stick to the foolishness of preaching. Because God offers no other solution.

 

[DanielFive]

If you honestly desire to persuade people like myself, Mike, and Jonathan,

Read Ephesians 5:10, '...proving what is acceptable unto the Lord'

Note, it doesn't say prove what is sinful it says prove what is acceptable, therefore the onus is not on Su Wei or myself to convince you, it's for you to prove your point.

We are not discussing whether or not it is sinful for you or enda to listen to certain styles of music. I wouldn't dare to presume the state of your conscience with respect to individual Christian liberties.I do promise however that if we by chance one day happen to be riding in the same car or in some other setting where there is a stereo, I will respect your feelings on the matter and restrict our music to whatever you feel is appropriate.Okay?

Great, but don't you think we are concerned about all the unbelievers you meet on a daily basis, the manor of your life will have a bearing on their perception of Christianity as a whole. If they witness you doing the same things as they are doing how could they persuaded to come to Christ. Our whole lives should be a witness to the unsaved, that we are different, that we are not of this world and have no pleasure in the things of the world.

It is on this point that I reprove you, as Matthew Henry said - failure to reprove a sinner is to partake in his sin. Obviously, you don't accept that your actions are sinful and I accept your opinion, nevertheless if you seek to convince me that my reproof was wrong you'll have to state your case from scripture.

I can accept that you have liberty of conscience also, and obviously you have been able to prove to your own conscience that these things are acceptable unto Our Lord. It shouldn't be too difficult to convince the rest of us.

God Bless'

Enda

 

[Su Wei]

.

 

[Su Wei]

Originally posted by Su Wei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by am ha'aretz:
it appears in this epistle that paul is telling us there is no command to not associate with unregenerate sinners.

no, he saying we have no right to discipline unregenerate sinners. but people who are saved. within the church, we are to lovingly discipline and keep in check to the point of not eating (excommunicating) with a brother who refuses to change..

he is not saying there is no command not to associate with unbelievers. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[DanielFive]

Su,

I would agree totally with you here (surprise, surprise

)

I think the case of Lot is a warning to us all. We must follow Abraham's example and stay as far away from the world as possible.

God Bless,

Enda

 

[timothy 1769]

yes, i would reach sinners, as many as i can, but not at places that would spoil my testimony or where i might fall into sin and temptation as my own flesh is weak.

And i would stick to the foolishness of preaching. Because God offers no other solution.

fair enough

 

[timothy 1769]

We must follow Abraham's example and stay as far away from the world as possible.

forgive the cliche, but what would jesus do, or even better, what DID jesus do?

 

[Su Wei]

Originally posted by am ha'aretz:


fair enough

[/QB]

THank you for the affirmation. I was beginning to get defensive over here.