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Anyone heard this?
- Thread starter Rachel
- Start date
Has anyone heard of "The World Wide Message Tribe" they are from England. Their message was through their music. Some would consider it anything other than Christian.
They are no longer together as a band, but they still have a Website: www.thetribeuk.com
They are no longer together as a band, but they still have a Website: www.thetribeuk.com
Most forms of music are in some way derived from "heathenism". That is the reality of man after the fall. There is no true "Judeo-Christian" physical nation or culture, for even the Israelites were still sinful and fell into heathenism. And their music, which God was worshipped to, was no different from anyone else in the mideast (it was not classical, which stemmed from equally heathen Europe, which differed only in later co-opting Christianity, and look at the Church that came out of it, for many centuries!). Yet the music was not one of the things abhorred by God.
And a bunch of urban kids from the inner city (where rap, in its modern form, came from) are not more "heathen" than anyone else either.
Uh, I grew up around them.
I see no less sin in other groups of people, including older generations, or higher classes, other ethnicities, etc. It all just manifests itself differently. But it's all the same thing!
I myself was always quiet and didn't fit in in the streets, so I for one can testify of their sin. But they are still not as cold and often cruel as the business world can be, or even some Churches/religion, or especially slavery and Jim Crow and other such institutions in the past.
All of this proved to me the Gospel teaching that "scripture has concluded all under sin". But it seems that those who argue for the Bible the most don't seem to believe it.
What I am seeing here is the Israelites of the NT (versus the "dogs" or "sinners" of the Gentiles) all over again. Haven't we learned from their error? There is no such thing as "more heathen". (Is God grading on a curve, or something? Will there be any such merit at the Judgment?)
All our righteousness is as filthy rags before God (and before God is our only concern; not comparisons before man!) It is only by grace that we are seen in Christ's righteousness, and not as "heathens" ourselves. Sorry, but there is no merit in any culture over another!
I see no less sin in other groups of people, including older generations, or higher classes, other ethnicities, etc. It all just manifests itself differently. But it's all the same thing!
I myself was always quiet and didn't fit in in the streets, so I for one can testify of their sin. But they are still not as cold and often cruel as the business world can be, or even some Churches/religion, or especially slavery and Jim Crow and other such institutions in the past.
All of this proved to me the Gospel teaching that "scripture has concluded all under sin". But it seems that those who argue for the Bible the most don't seem to believe it.
What I am seeing here is the Israelites of the NT (versus the "dogs" or "sinners" of the Gentiles) all over again. Haven't we learned from their error? There is no such thing as "more heathen". (Is God grading on a curve, or something? Will there be any such merit at the Judgment?)
All our righteousness is as filthy rags before God (and before God is our only concern; not comparisons before man!) It is only by grace that we are seen in Christ's righteousness, and not as "heathens" ourselves. Sorry, but there is no merit in any culture over another!
Rachel, please, I did not intimate that other people are not sinful!
I work among inner city kids RIGHT NOW, every week. I am telling you, these days they ARE more cruel than the kids you grew up with. It is not just some kids playing kickball in the street. In MY city they play kickball with people in the street.
The kids we encounter (who we bring to Sunday School every week, love, and minister to them, teach them the gospel, EVERY WEEK) THESE kids are hardened, bitter and angry.
The inner city is not just poor, it has become neglected by God's people and so the kids ARE becoming more heathen than many other groups.
Rachel, perhaps you need to look at more cultures before you decide there is no merit in any one over another. There are drug cultures, would you say they are just as good as the church culture? Probably not.
But please, do not take what I said as my being holier than thou. I work with these kids and I know who they are. Do you? We are trying to take them from where they are (without God) to where God wants them (saved and walking WITH God).
That last is a challenge to make you think, not an accusation.
Not all "cultures" in our country are good, and not all forms of music are good. There is Godly music and there is unGodly music.
I work among inner city kids RIGHT NOW, every week. I am telling you, these days they ARE more cruel than the kids you grew up with. It is not just some kids playing kickball in the street. In MY city they play kickball with people in the street.
The kids we encounter (who we bring to Sunday School every week, love, and minister to them, teach them the gospel, EVERY WEEK) THESE kids are hardened, bitter and angry.
The inner city is not just poor, it has become neglected by God's people and so the kids ARE becoming more heathen than many other groups.
Rachel, perhaps you need to look at more cultures before you decide there is no merit in any one over another. There are drug cultures, would you say they are just as good as the church culture? Probably not.
But please, do not take what I said as my being holier than thou. I work with these kids and I know who they are. Do you? We are trying to take them from where they are (without God) to where God wants them (saved and walking WITH God).
That last is a challenge to make you think, not an accusation.
Not all "cultures" in our country are good, and not all forms of music are good. There is Godly music and there is unGodly music.
First,
FBCPastorsWife, I find your condecending attitude inappropriate. Maybe your issues clouded your judgement?. Debate is fine, provoking someone with snide remarks is not.You make a snide remark then don't want an argumet that you provoked. How convenient. You have a lot to learn. And bapmom, you may believe all rap music is wrong. But your bias does not make it so. You said:
"lol Eric,
have you ever spent any time with "a bunch of urban kids from the inner city"?
If you had you would not claim that they aren't more heathen than anyone else."
and:
Not all "cultures" in our country are good, and not all forms of music are good. There is Godly music and there is unGodly music."
You did claim that urban kids are more heathen, and you are wrong. Yes I do know all about them, yes we do work with them. Yes I have lived there as well as in predominately upper class white neighborhoods. The difference is the white "heathens" have the means to hide their sins better. No "culture is "good" without Christ as the center, not even "suburban or upper class".
Maybe you and FBCPastors wife should back away re-read your responses and examine your own hearts to see why you feel the need to put others down to lift yourselves up. Why do that? El_Guero well, I am older too, don't personally like rap. but is that what this thread is really about?
FBCPastorsWife said:
"Good grief nothing! Perhaps you weren't so unfortunate to hear the original trash by Sir Mix-a-Lot when you were growing up. Why would anyone want to hear lyrics about the Bible to the music that talks about someone's butt, being horny (excuse the use of this word) and sex. There is nothing God honoring in something like this!"
Rachel said she had not heard it. This is key here. So where did the evil thought about it come from. Think about it.
Someone, answer EricB intelligently please, without the attacks. You may just learn something if you can get past you predjudices. I would love to see honest discussion without the personal jabs because of people's assumptions.
FBCPastorsWife, I find your condecending attitude inappropriate. Maybe your issues clouded your judgement?. Debate is fine, provoking someone with snide remarks is not.You make a snide remark then don't want an argumet that you provoked. How convenient. You have a lot to learn. And bapmom, you may believe all rap music is wrong. But your bias does not make it so. You said:
"lol Eric,
have you ever spent any time with "a bunch of urban kids from the inner city"?
If you had you would not claim that they aren't more heathen than anyone else."
and:
Not all "cultures" in our country are good, and not all forms of music are good. There is Godly music and there is unGodly music."
You did claim that urban kids are more heathen, and you are wrong. Yes I do know all about them, yes we do work with them. Yes I have lived there as well as in predominately upper class white neighborhoods. The difference is the white "heathens" have the means to hide their sins better. No "culture is "good" without Christ as the center, not even "suburban or upper class".
Maybe you and FBCPastors wife should back away re-read your responses and examine your own hearts to see why you feel the need to put others down to lift yourselves up. Why do that? El_Guero well, I am older too, don't personally like rap. but is that what this thread is really about?
FBCPastorsWife said:
"Good grief nothing! Perhaps you weren't so unfortunate to hear the original trash by Sir Mix-a-Lot when you were growing up. Why would anyone want to hear lyrics about the Bible to the music that talks about someone's butt, being horny (excuse the use of this word) and sex. There is nothing God honoring in something like this!"
Rachel said she had not heard it. This is key here. So where did the evil thought about it come from. Think about it.
Someone, answer EricB intelligently please, without the attacks. You may just learn something if you can get past you predjudices. I would love to see honest discussion without the personal jabs because of people's assumptions.
Well I liked the song. I once took a popular Rock and Roll song "Old Time Rock and Roll" and added Christian words to it and preformed it in a Baptist church (I still hold membership in). For the most part as far as I could tell most were clapping along.
I'm so glad that the Lord gives us veriety in how we worship Him as long as it is unto the Lord. These young men hopefully can reach the new generation and win then to Jesus. But you got to get your foot in the door first so you can witness.
I'm so glad that the Lord gives us veriety in how we worship Him as long as it is unto the Lord. These young men hopefully can reach the new generation and win then to Jesus. But you got to get your foot in the door first so you can witness.
Elnora,
yes, I did claim that INNER CITY kids are more heathen, because they are being raised that way! They are being raised in a culture of drugs and alcoholism.
What I was refuting was that I did NOT say that I or any other group is WITHOUT sin, or that our sin is LESS in God's eyes.
yes, I did claim that INNER CITY kids are more heathen, because they are being raised that way! They are being raised in a culture of drugs and alcoholism.
What I was refuting was that I did NOT say that I or any other group is WITHOUT sin, or that our sin is LESS in God's eyes.
Elnora,
Im sorry you got the impression that I and FBCPW are being mean, but we are really only accepting reality for what it is.
By heathen I refer to the fact that these children are bitter, angry, disrespectful, hardened kids, because they are being taught to be that way. Im not saying I don't love them, or that my kids don't have faults.
Now, if you want to be defensive, I can understand why you'd take it that way.
Just sit back and realize that we are not attacking anyone, we are just accepting reality. And we are trying to help others see that there IS Godly music, and there is no place in the Christian's life for the UNGodly music.
A CHristian OUGHT to be judgemental towards THINGS (not people) that do not glorify God.
Im sorry you got the impression that I and FBCPW are being mean, but we are really only accepting reality for what it is.
By heathen I refer to the fact that these children are bitter, angry, disrespectful, hardened kids, because they are being taught to be that way. Im not saying I don't love them, or that my kids don't have faults.
Now, if you want to be defensive, I can understand why you'd take it that way.
Just sit back and realize that we are not attacking anyone, we are just accepting reality. And we are trying to help others see that there IS Godly music, and there is no place in the Christian's life for the UNGodly music.
A CHristian OUGHT to be judgemental towards THINGS (not people) that do not glorify God.
bapmom,
Yes you did claim that the "INNER CITY (big bold here) kids are more heathen, because they are being raised that way! They are being raised in a culture of drugs and alcoholism."
And I say you are wrong. How can they be more "heathen" because they are innercity? A heathen is a heathen. As I pointed out, it is easier to condone upper middle class and suburbian sin because we can relate to the lifestyle, does not make them "less heathen".
I didn't get any impression, you spelled out very well your bias on this issue. With all your BIG and !!!! I say you are the one being defensive.
What are you you implying by "Now, if you want to be defensive, I can understand why you'd take it that way." this statement?
Your thinking is flawed by your obvious bias. We need to judge based on scripture not our bias, when will you do that? Still waiting for an answer to the questions posed.
Yes you did claim that the "INNER CITY (big bold here) kids are more heathen, because they are being raised that way! They are being raised in a culture of drugs and alcoholism."
And I say you are wrong. How can they be more "heathen" because they are innercity? A heathen is a heathen. As I pointed out, it is easier to condone upper middle class and suburbian sin because we can relate to the lifestyle, does not make them "less heathen".
I didn't get any impression, you spelled out very well your bias on this issue. With all your BIG and !!!! I say you are the one being defensive.
What are you you implying by "Now, if you want to be defensive, I can understand why you'd take it that way." this statement?
Your thinking is flawed by your obvious bias. We need to judge based on scripture not our bias, when will you do that? Still waiting for an answer to the questions posed.
Gentlemen & Ladies
Back to the thread.
The song was TRASH IMHO. The lyrics:
Then the song talked about a woman (& her Bible) as if it was talking about her body parts.
I found NOTHING uplifting about the song. I can remember when ROCK songs were that vulgar. But, they WERE heathen songs. Why would anyone want to bring that into our children's hearts?
Back to the thread.
The song was TRASH IMHO. The lyrics:
Tell me ONE thing cute about trampling upon the Blood of Christ in that manner?
Then the song talked about a woman (& her Bible) as if it was talking about her body parts.
I found NOTHING uplifting about the song. I can remember when ROCK songs were that vulgar. But, they WERE heathen songs. Why would anyone want to bring that into our children's hearts?
Thank you El_Guero
I say that what I got from it was not trampling upon the Blood of Christ, but a parody mocking whoever wrote the original. Saying, give him a bible believing, pure Christian girl that knows the Word. Again, not my style but to call it of the devil because it is rap is a big, big stretch.
I say that what I got from it was not trampling upon the Blood of Christ, but a parody mocking whoever wrote the original. Saying, give him a bible believing, pure Christian girl that knows the Word. Again, not my style but to call it of the devil because it is rap is a big, big stretch.
FBCPastorsWife
New Member
Elnora,
I said in an earlier post that I was done with this debate but I feel I need to explain something. If you re-read my posts I said the same thing as El_Guero. Perhaps it did not come out that way. I don't recall saying anything about the culture of rap music. I simply was ashamed that someone under a Christian title was using a song of that nature. I stated my opinion first and someone was displeased with it. Then I went through and listed reasons why I thought the song was trashy. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. You said that I had a bad attitude in this matter. I hate that it came across this way. I try always to have a sweet spirit on this board but I felt really attacked by being called a legalist and idiotic. I feel in no way that I am a legalist nor idiotic. I have strong feelings about music like this because I used to be involved with rap, rock and trance at the same time I was involved with drugs and alcohol. For me, the two worlds mix very easily. Please don't misunderstand me when I say that. It is just my opinion and am not trying to judge anybody for it. I just stopped trying to debate it when things got a little out of hand.
I hope nobody was truly offended by my statements but I do stick by my words concerning the song mentioned.
I said in an earlier post that I was done with this debate but I feel I need to explain something. If you re-read my posts I said the same thing as El_Guero. Perhaps it did not come out that way. I don't recall saying anything about the culture of rap music. I simply was ashamed that someone under a Christian title was using a song of that nature. I stated my opinion first and someone was displeased with it. Then I went through and listed reasons why I thought the song was trashy. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. You said that I had a bad attitude in this matter. I hate that it came across this way. I try always to have a sweet spirit on this board but I felt really attacked by being called a legalist and idiotic. I feel in no way that I am a legalist nor idiotic. I have strong feelings about music like this because I used to be involved with rap, rock and trance at the same time I was involved with drugs and alcohol. For me, the two worlds mix very easily. Please don't misunderstand me when I say that. It is just my opinion and am not trying to judge anybody for it. I just stopped trying to debate it when things got a little out of hand.
I hope nobody was truly offended by my statements but I do stick by my words concerning the song mentioned.
Tell me ONE thing cute about trampling upon the Blood of Christ in that manner?
Then the song talked about a woman (& her Bible) as if it was talking about her body parts.
I found NOTHING uplifting about the song. I can remember when ROCK songs were that vulgar. But, they WERE heathen songs. Why would anyone want to bring that into our children's hearts? </font>[/QUOTE]So when the devil uses something for bad its wrong for us to turn it around and use it for good?
About the quote....I believe that is refering to the scripture about our names being engraved on His hand. Like in the song "Before the Throne of God Above".
FBCPastorswife.
I did read your post. I also mentioned your comment before you said you were done with the debate. If you treat someone the way you did, why would you expect them not to respond? "Dear" was condescending. That was what I was trying to point out to you.
No you did not say anything about the culture of rap music, you said it was from the pit of hell. People ask why. Because of your experience and how you "feel" does not make that viewpoint right. Why would you be ashamed because someone liked the song. Because of your own experience? Projecting your feelings does not equal scripture.
Also you really don't need to explain your circumstances and why. Not necessary, although I understand how you feel about it. Been there done that, nuf said on that. I think she felt attacked and now you do. Because of the wrong approach.
The bottom line to my post was. Please give scripture if you believe it is wrong. Rather than say "it's from the pit of hell and I am ashamed for you!" Being ashamed of someone else because of your experiences is wrong. She did say she had never heard the original and I also later explained that it was a parody mocking the world view.
You just admitted why you don't like it, but it has nothing to do with the issues you personally have. As for trying to be sweet and failing, we all do. I am not on a crusade to beat you up. I was trying to get you to see why you got the reaction you did and why the song is not from the pit because you don't like the music. I hold no ill against you. Really I don't.
I did read your post. I also mentioned your comment before you said you were done with the debate. If you treat someone the way you did, why would you expect them not to respond? "Dear" was condescending. That was what I was trying to point out to you.
No you did not say anything about the culture of rap music, you said it was from the pit of hell. People ask why. Because of your experience and how you "feel" does not make that viewpoint right. Why would you be ashamed because someone liked the song. Because of your own experience? Projecting your feelings does not equal scripture.
Also you really don't need to explain your circumstances and why. Not necessary, although I understand how you feel about it. Been there done that, nuf said on that. I think she felt attacked and now you do. Because of the wrong approach.
The bottom line to my post was. Please give scripture if you believe it is wrong. Rather than say "it's from the pit of hell and I am ashamed for you!" Being ashamed of someone else because of your experiences is wrong. She did say she had never heard the original and I also later explained that it was a parody mocking the world view.
You just admitted why you don't like it, but it has nothing to do with the issues you personally have. As for trying to be sweet and failing, we all do. I am not on a crusade to beat you up. I was trying to get you to see why you got the reaction you did and why the song is not from the pit because you don't like the music. I hold no ill against you. Really I don't.
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
Amen Joseph_Botwinick, citizenofheaven, FBCPastorsWife, El_Guero, and bapmom!
FBCPastorsWife
New Member
Elnora, please don't see my "dear" as being rude. I say "dear" to everyone. It's just a word I use.