Anything good from alcohol?

[Helen]

I have not seen one mind changed on here or the other wine threads. The thrust of the threads are is it ok to drink a small amount of wine. Even those who say its ok to drink turn it into a "small" amount. Well, that tells you a lot, if you have to turn it into such a "small" amount then must be something wrong with it but we only want to hurt ourselves a little.

Please, only use a little salt on your food.

Does that mean you are only to hurt yourself a little?

 

[Charles Meadows]

Bro Bob,

I think the thrust is more on the fact that there is no prohibition on wine in the Bible - only warnings against drunkenness.

Certain members here (not you) insist on forcing their interpretations on the text despite what it actually says. True alcohol doesn't bring good things - but like it or not the Bible never actually says that all alcohol is forbidden.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Wycliffe - Matthew 7:13-14 Entre ye bi the streyt yate; for the yate that ledith to perdicioun is large, and the weie is broode, and there ben many that entren bi it. Hou streit is the yate, and narwy the weye, that ledith to lijf, and ther ben fewe that fynden it.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not ech man that seith to me, Lord, Lord, schal entre in to the kyngdom of heuenes; but he that doith the wille of my fadir that is in heuenes, he schal entre in to the kyngdoom of heuenes. Many schulen seie to me in that dai, Lord, Lord, whether we han not prophesied in thi name, and han caste out feendis in thi name, and han doon many vertues in thi name? And thanne Y schal knouleche to hem, That Y knewe you neuere; departe awei fro me, ye that worchen wickidnesse.

Proverbs 16:25 A weye is that semeth riytful to a man; and the laste thingis therof leden to deth.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Its much like the idea that most motorcycle racers I know feel about motorcycle riders on the street. They have no desire to ride their motorcycle on the road. They consider it unsafe and see people who ride their motorcycle on the street as stupid.

That's part of the reason I started racing: No cars to run over you, and the ambulance was only a few moments away. In much the same way, although wine is not forbidden, I practice and teach total abstinence as the safest practice.

 

[Hope of Glory]

1Ti 5:23 -
Drink no longer water (μηκέτι ὑδροπότει)
The verb N.T.o. olxx. Rend. be no longer a drinker of water. Timothy is not enjoined to abstain from water, but is bidden not to be a water-drinker, entirely abstaining from wine. The kindred noun ὑδροπότης is used by Greek comic writers to denote a mean-spirited person. See Aristoph. Knights, 319.

But use a little wine (ἀλλὰ οἴνῳ ὀλίγῳ χρῶ)
The reverse antithesis appears in Hdt. i. 171, of the Persians: οὐκ οἴνῳ διαχρέονται ἀλλ' ὑδροποτέουσι they do not indulge in wine but are water-drinkers. Comp. Plato, Repub. 561 C, τοτὲ μεν μεθύων - αὖθις δὲ ὑδροποτῶν sometimes he is drunk - then he is for total-abstinence. With a little wine comp. much wine, 1Ti_3:8; Tit_2:3.

 

[DHK]

Bro Bob,

I think the thrust is more on the fact that there is no prohibition on wine in the Bible - only warnings against drunkenness.

Certain members here (not you) insist on forcing their interpretations on the text despite what it actually says. True alcohol doesn't bring good things - but like it or not the Bible never actually says that all alcohol is forbidden.

Does the Bible have to say things in the exact words that we want the Bible to say them. The Bible never says "Thou shalt not coinstruct meth labs," either. I hope you know better. There are many things that the Bible 'doesn't say.
The Catholics argue that the Bible never says that salvation is by faith alone, however it does say in James the exact opposite:

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

So the Bible never says "Thou shalt abstain from alcohol." But like the Catholics who take Scripture out of context to prove a works salvation so some here do the same with Scripture to justify their drinking pleasure or problem whatever the case may be.
DHK

 

[ACADEMIC]

Okay, so some are convinced that all alcohol use is sin.

So fine. Be convinced. I am not. And many others will remain unconvinced. Maybe the one group are the weaker ones and maybe the other groups are the stronger; or vice-versa. It does not really matter. As Paul stated,

Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
For it is written:

"As I live, says the LORD,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God."

So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way.
I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.
Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another.
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.
It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

Rom 14:1-23

There is a whole lot more to talk about than "doubtful disputings." There are things "which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another."

Please, feel free.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Alcohol should not be a doubtful dispute when it cones to people who truly believe God's Holy Word.

God's Word tells us to have nothing to do with it.

You say you and many others are unconvinced? One day you will be. And regardless what you or others may think, it really does matter.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

We will now look at the remaining passages that refer to drinking in the New Testament. The first of which reads:

Romans 13:13-14 13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. 14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

This passage is very interesting. The Greek word translated “rioting” is komos Thayer explains the meaning of this word:

A revel, carousal, i.e. in Greek writers a nocturnal and riotous procession of half-drunken and frolicsome fellows who after supper parade through the street with torches and music in honor of Bacchus or some other deity, and sing and play before the houses of their male and female friends; hence used generally, of feasts and drinking parties that are protracted till late at night and indulge in revelry.

Here we see the Apostle Paul warns against drinking and the resulting evils of it, and then warns against drunkenness itself. Concerning the warning, “And make not provision for the flesh,” Clarke states:

By flesh we are here to understand, not only the body, but all the irregular appetites and passions which led to the abominations already recited. No provision should be made for the encouragement and gratification of such a principle as this.

The word translated “provision” is pornoia, which means “forethought.” Kenneth Wuest quotes Denney on the meaning of this word:

An interest in it which consults for it, and makes it an object.

The last clause of verse 14, could therefore read, “and make no forethought for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.” The NIV states:

…and do not think how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

Here we can see that one is not even to think about purchasing or obtaining alcoholic beverages which are used to satisfy the lusts of the sinful nature, let alone drinking it and being so-called “moderate” with it!

Since this chapter ends with the command, “and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof;” it is clear therefore that both drinking and drunkenness, as well as everything else mentioned, are works of the flesh.

taken from Leighton G. Campbell's book, "Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence" pp. 333-334

 

[ACADEMIC]

Alcohol should not be a doubtful dispute when it cones to people who truly believe God's Holy Word.

God's Word tells us to have nothing to do with it.

You say you and many others are unconvinced? One day you will be. And regardless what you or others may think, it really does matter.

I imagine that Christians in the Corininthian church said to Christians who disagreed with them on days, food, wine, and other matters, something very close to, "You say you and many others are unconvinced? One day you will be. And regardless what you or others may think, it really does matter." That is one reason Paul had to address the matter.

You, a person in Christ, are clearly convinced that the Scriptures teach complete non-use. I, along with many people equally in Christ, have delved into the the same Bible with serious and protracted study and have come to a different conclusion. Like it or not, moderate wine consumption is a "doubtful matter" in the realities of millions of Christians who are just as much in Christ.

Very well. You are certainly free to be so convinced. Yet I am not and not many will be. And they are free to not. Christ has accepted them. Both are in Christ.

I accept believers as full believers who feel they must keep days, abstain from food or wine, etc. I accept you.

There is a whole lot more to talk about than things doubtful. If moderate wine use is not doubtful, then why are there a half dozen recent multi-page threads here on the matter?

"Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another."

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Okay, so some are convinced that all alcohol use is sin.

So fine. Be convinced. I am not. And many others will remain unconvinced. Maybe the one group are the weaker ones and maybe the other groups are the stronger; or vice-versa. It does not really matter. As Paul stated,



There is a whole lot more to talk about than "doubtful disputings." There are things "which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another."

Please, feel free.

The next passage of Scripture is probably the most misunderstood in Christian circles regarding total abstinence. It reads:

It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Romans (14:21)

Some Christians have quite well intentionally written that this verse is a case for total abstinence from alcohol, but this is not the case. The Apostle Paul had already dealt with this in the previous chapter (13:13,14), as he is writing a systematic and orderly epistle. Here in Romans chapter 14, he is dealing with an entirely different subject.

Others have been more ignorant, and have stated that this is the only case for abstinence from alcohol. This again is totally incorrect. This erroneous view from the Hastings Bible Dictionary, quoted in F.N. Peloubet's Bible Dictionary, which states:

the apostle Paul has stated the case for total abstinence in Romans 14 in a way that does not need the treacherous aid of doubtful exegesis for it's support.

This is quite a bold statement, which in itself is doubtful and has no Scriptural support whatsoever. As stated previously, Romans 14, is not the only case for total abstinence from alcohol, as we have seen, and will see again from Scripture. The exegesis is not doubtful or treacherous as the authorities above would have us believe. For the truths come straight from the mouth of God Himself:

Every Scripture is God-Breathed... (2 Tim. 3:16, Amplified Bible).

The opening three verses of Romans chapter 14, declares what the chapter is all about:

1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Romans 14:1-3

First of all we should note before we look at verse 21, the verse that concerns us most, that the Apostle is not dealing with the case for total abstinence from alcohol. Because this is not a "doubtful disputation" but Scriptural. The Apostle had only just written against those who indulged in drinking and the resulting evils associated with it, moments before in the previous chapter which we just examined (Romans 13:13,14).

What the Apostle sets out to do here in chapter 14, is to clear up the disputes regarding certain customs and practices in the church. This is the sole purpose of the chapter. Alan F. Johnson explains:

It should be clear by what follows that Paul is not talking about any specific commands of God or Biblical prohibitions, such as adultery, lying, and idolatry. The argument was over the use of certain material things and the observance of social customs.

Here we have the point. These things were not important; the ones who found fault in eating or drinking certain things, were not to pass judgment on those who did. And those who did, were to do likewise to those who did not. The Apostle Paul then goes on in verse 17, to state the most important and crucial aspect of the Christian life:

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

The first term here "righteousness," has to do with the Believer's relationship with God. He is to be obedient to the commandments of God if he is to enjoy the peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Abstinence from alcohol is not an option, but a Scriptural command. Proverbs 23:31, makes this absolutely clear:

Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup...

The conception therefore, that the Apostle Paul only endorses total abstinence from alcohol on the account of the feelings of a fellow brother or sister, is not valid. A key verse, which explains this even further, is verse 20, which states:

For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word translated "meat" here properly denotes food. The NIV states:

Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food.

taken from Leighton G. Campbell's book, 'Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence' pp. 334-336

 

[Diggin in da Word]

"Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another."

Wow! did I just read that correctly? Do you not follow the very verse you post? There is no peace in alcohol, yet by advocating its use, you are pursuing it. Alcohol does not edify, yet you are pursuing it by advocating its use.

Amazing!

 

[DHK]

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

This is a very interesting verse when studied out properly, and gives us some insight to Paul’s view on alcohol (the Holy Spirit’s view).
First note that the verse is a direct comparison. When someone complained to Dwight L. Moody that the deacon in his church was drunk, Graham answered: “Are you filled with the Holy Spirit? It is just as much sin not to be filled with the Holy Spirit, as it is to be drunk with wine. But this is only part of the analogy.
The verbs are in the present continuous. This indicates that one must continuously be filled with the Holy Spirit. That is the command that we are given. Thus the opposite is also true. Be continually emptied of wine or drunkenness. In as much as you need to be always full of the Holy Spirit you need to always be empty of drunkenness or wine. There is the comparison. There are yet other comparisons in this verse. When one gets drunk he gives himself over to another power, (alcohol), and does things that he would not normally do if he was not under that power. However those things that he does he finds out later, he is ashamed of. Those who are filled with the Holy Spirit also do things that they would not normally do if they were not filled. As a drunk becomes controlled by his alcohol, a Christian becomes controlled by the Holy Spirit and does things that he will eventually be rewarded for, but unlike the drunk—not in shame, but in glory.
DHK

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Alcohol is not food but a poisonous drug, which is used for the satisfying of the desires of the flesh, and therefore again does not and cannot apply here. The booklet entitled, Alcohol and You, explains this fact:

Alcoholic drinks contain no significant amounts of protein or fat, and can therefore not make good the bodily requirements lost through wear and tear nor build tissue anew, so in that sense cannot be classified as food. Food, by definition, must build and restore cells and be storable as reserves against future use. A drug by definition, is any substance which brings about a chemical change in the functioning organs of the body, and on the basis of this definition alcohol should be classed as a drug. It is true that since alcohol is oxidized in the body, thereby supplying energy and perhaps, to a very small extent, allowing the organism to save its fat and protein, it can be regarded as a ‘fuel’ food – but its toxic and tissue destroying properties by far exceed its slight fuel value.

The wine that Paul was referring to in verse 21, was obviously not alcoholic. Paul was speaking of wholesome food and drink in general, which would naturally include the juice of the grape. Albert Barnes’ Commentary on this text explains:

Wine was a common drink among the Jews, and usually esteemed lawful. But the Nazarites were not allowed to drink it, (Nu 6:3) and the Rechabites (Jer 35:1-19) drank no wine; and it is possible that some of the early converts regarded it as unlawful for Christians to drink it. Wine was, moreover, used in libations in heathen worship, and perhaps the Jewish converts might be scrupulous about its use from this cause. The caution here shows us what should be done now in regard to the use of wine. It may not be possible to prove that wine is absolutely unlawful, but still many friends of temperance regard it as such, and are grieved at its use. They esteem the habit of using it as tending to intemperance, and as encouraging those who cannot afford expensive liquors. Besides, the wines which are now used are different from those which were common among the ancients. That was the pure juice of the grape. That which is now in common use is mingled with alcohol, and with other intoxicating ingredients.

We should note again that had the Apostle been referring to alcoholic wine, he would not have made the statement in verse 20, “All things indeed are pure.” He would be thus saying that alcoholic wine is pure, harmless, and legal just like any other food. This would contradict Proverbs 20:1 which states, “Wine is a mocker.”

To determine whether the Bible speaks of wine in its fermented or unfermented state must be judged from the context. And the context here in Romans 14, makes it clear that Paul was not permitting the use of fermented or alcoholic wine.




taken from Leighton G. Campbell's book, "Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Total Abstinence" pp. 336-338

 

[Lagardo]

Now, back to the OP:

Cough Syrup....and a few other things too

 

[Brother Bob]

So, that is what that wineo was trying to tell me. Last thing in the world I would of thought of was that he was quoting scripture to me.

 

[Revmitchell]

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonID=5130418461

Billy Sunday speaks on alcohol

 

[Lagardo]

From the OP...

Please, the regular "alcohol is devil's juice" folks, don't turn this thread into the same old 30 page thread condemning believers who don't hold to your convictions.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

According to the Word of God, when one becomes a believer he is to, 'Go and sin no more.' The Holy Spirit is a convicting Spirit. If one does not feel convicted of drinking that which God has forbidden, that one needs to have a good talk with the Lord and needs to study the Word of God more.

 

[webdog]

I ask the moderators to edit any further posts who are posting exactly what I asked them NOT to post in the OP...their convictions are right, everyone else is wrong. I'm tired of these threads being taken over by the self righteous.