LOL, we are talking about unconditional election for salvation, not for another of God's purposes. There are absolutely no verses or passages that say or suggest unconditional election of individuals for salvation. On the other hand 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5, and 1 Corinthians 1:27.
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Appointed To Eternal Life?
- Thread starter Rye
- Start date
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You rejected what I have shown, duh
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
2Th 2:13 - But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Jas 2:5 - Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
1Co 1:27 - But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
Van, what are the "conditions" God required when He made His choices as expressed in the verses you selected?
Maybe I am missing your point.
Blue Letter Bible
Charles H. Spurgeon
March 6, 2025
Morning Reading
Ye must be born again.
— John 3:7
Regeneration is a subject which lies at the very basis of salvation, and we should be very diligent to take heed that we really are "born again," for there are many who fancy they are, who are not. Be assured that the name of a Christian is not the nature of a Christian; and that being born in a Christian land, and being recognized as professing the Christian religion is of no avail whatever, unless there be something more added to it-the being "born again," is a matter so mysterious, that human words cannot describe it. "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." Nevertheless, it is a change which is known and felt: known by works of holiness, and felt by a gracious experience. This great work is supernatural. It is not an operation which a man performs for himself: a new principle is infused, which works in the heart, renews the soul, and affects the entire man. It is not a change of my name, but a renewal of my nature, so that I am not the man I used to be, but a new man in Christ Jesus. To wash and dress a corpse is a far different thing from making it alive: man can do the one, God alone can do the other. If you have then, been "born again," your acknowledgment will be, "O Lord Jesus, the everlasting Father, Thou art my spiritual Parent; unless Thy Spirit had breathed into me the breath of a new, holy, and spiritual life, I had been to this day 'dead in trespasses and sins.' My heavenly life is wholly derived from Thee, to Thee I ascribe it. 'My life is hid with Christ in God.' It is no longer I who live, but Christ who liveth in me." May the Lord enable us to be well assured on this vital point, for to be unregenerate is to be unsaved, unpardoned, without God, and without hope.
This emailed devotional is a daily mailing courtesy of the Blue Letter Bible to which you have subscribed.
Blue Letter Bible
PO Box 80670
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688
Charles H. Spurgeon
March 6, 2025
Morning Reading
Ye must be born again.
— John 3:7
Regeneration is a subject which lies at the very basis of salvation, and we should be very diligent to take heed that we really are "born again," for there are many who fancy they are, who are not. Be assured that the name of a Christian is not the nature of a Christian; and that being born in a Christian land, and being recognized as professing the Christian religion is of no avail whatever, unless there be something more added to it-the being "born again," is a matter so mysterious, that human words cannot describe it. "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." Nevertheless, it is a change which is known and felt: known by works of holiness, and felt by a gracious experience. This great work is supernatural. It is not an operation which a man performs for himself: a new principle is infused, which works in the heart, renews the soul, and affects the entire man. It is not a change of my name, but a renewal of my nature, so that I am not the man I used to be, but a new man in Christ Jesus. To wash and dress a corpse is a far different thing from making it alive: man can do the one, God alone can do the other. If you have then, been "born again," your acknowledgment will be, "O Lord Jesus, the everlasting Father, Thou art my spiritual Parent; unless Thy Spirit had breathed into me the breath of a new, holy, and spiritual life, I had been to this day 'dead in trespasses and sins.' My heavenly life is wholly derived from Thee, to Thee I ascribe it. 'My life is hid with Christ in God.' It is no longer I who live, but Christ who liveth in me." May the Lord enable us to be well assured on this vital point, for to be unregenerate is to be unsaved, unpardoned, without God, and without hope.
This emailed devotional is a daily mailing courtesy of the Blue Letter Bible to which you have subscribed.
Blue Letter Bible
PO Box 80670
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You asked what are the conditions God required when He made His choices? The answers are right in the text.
2Th 2:13 - But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Jas 2:5 - Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
1Co 1:27 - But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And I thought I made clear, the conditional election taught by these verses is for salvation.
If you acknowledge this point, then we may address what are the conditions specified.
1) God chose individuals for salvation through or by means of "setting the person apart spiritually in Christ." This is the meaning of the phrase sanctification of the Spirit in your version of 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
2) God chose individuals for salvation through or on the basis of "belief in the truth." This refers to God crediting a person's faith in Christ as righteousness. Thus it is God that determines whether the person actually believes in a manner consistent with His purpose. Salvation thus does not depend on the lost choosing to trust in Christ, but on God alone. Romans 9:16.
3) God chose individuals for salvation who were "rich in faith" and who "loved God." James 2:5 Again, God alone makes the determination, so the lost person commitment, love and trust in God, his or her faith, does not mean God, who knows our hearts, accepts the lost person's faith. For example, soil #2 in Matthew 13 had a superficial faith that God did not credit as righteousness.
4) God chose individuals for salvation whose merits were not well regarded by the world's value system, they were thought to be foolish rather than wise, probably in part to confound those who saw themselves as wise, in an effort to bring the self righteous to their senses. This "condition" was secondary to choosing individuals through faith in the truth. Ditto for choosing those not well born, wealthy or powerful. The world's value system does not influence God's choice of individuals, which is the meaning of the phrase, "not a respecter of persons." according to the world's value system.
Faith is according to grace, so it is conditional.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Silverhair
Thats not a condition, but a result, belief of the Truth is the product of the Sanctification cf the Spirit. You just made a selfwilled false claim. Thats why at the beginning of the verse God is Thanked, Belief of the Truth is from God in Salvation. And this verse is in regard to the chosen, who had been ordained to eternal life from the beginning.
Thats not a condition, but a result, belief of the Truth is the product of the Sanctification cf the Spirit. You just made a selfwilled false claim. Thats why at the beginning of the verse God is Thanked, Belief of the Truth is from God in Salvation. And this verse is in regard to the chosen, who had been ordained to eternal life from the beginning.
To be chosen through belief in the truth has been rewritten to say, to be saved resulting in faith in the truth. NOT HOW IT READS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Let us review:
1) Acts 13:48 was rewritten to change "appointed by mutual agreement" to read "appointed by unilateral placement."
2) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 was rewritten to change chosen through belief in the truth to read " saved then given belief in the truth."
3) Romans 3:11 was rewritten to change "no one seeks God" to read "no one ever seeks God."
4) 1 Corinthians 2:14 was rewritten to change "the things of the Spirit of God" to read "all the things of the Spirit of God."
Does anyone actually believe the Calvinist posters do not know their man-made doctrine has been added to scripture?
1) Acts 13:48 was rewritten to change "appointed by mutual agreement" to read "appointed by unilateral placement."
2) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 was rewritten to change chosen through belief in the truth to read " saved then given belief in the truth."
3) Romans 3:11 was rewritten to change "no one seeks God" to read "no one ever seeks God."
4) 1 Corinthians 2:14 was rewritten to change "the things of the Spirit of God" to read "all the things of the Spirit of God."
Does anyone actually believe the Calvinist posters do not know their man-made doctrine has been added to scripture?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF it seems you need to take a remedial reading course.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you,
brethren beloved by the Lord,
because
God from the beginning chose you for salvation
through sanctification by the Spirit
and
belief in the truth,
One is is chosen for salvation when they believe not at some distant point in the past.
Now if you had bothered to read one more verse then you would have seen your error.
2Th 2:14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul, in 2Th_2:13-14, is expanding on what he has been saying to the believing Thessalonians regarding the return of Christ. He was admonishing them to grow in sanctification through the Holy Spirit and continued belief in the truth of the gospel message that he had preached to them.
These verses are not about initial salvation through trusting the gospel message but rather salvation of those that are in Christ at His return.
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You pervert the word of truth with your conditions, denying the work of the Spirit in Salvation
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
How does trusting what the bible says re salvation.
Joh 16:8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
The Holy Spirit convicts the world of their sin
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
The Holy Spirit seals those that have trusted in Christ.
Note the wording here BF
Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
The person has to call on/believe in Him and then they are saved. Your theology has twisted scripture.
Calvinist Loraine Boettner stated the Calvinist position this way "A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved." Calvinists have it backwards.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You pervert the word of truth with your conditions,
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You ignore the conditions as they do not support your philosophy.
Act_16:30 ...."Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act_16:31 .... "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,....
Joh_1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You pervert the word of truth with your conditions,
Yes, that is what your mistranslation of "Tasso" represents.