Appointed To Eternal Life?

[Rye]

1 John 2:2, And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 2:3-6, For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . .

There is a reason why I look at these verses and don't come to the same conclusions. If Jesus is indeed the propitiation for the sins of every person in the whole and if He did in fact give Himself as a ransom for all of those people, that means everyone is saved. I can't read these texts and understand it to mean that Jesus only potentially does these things because the word "potential" isn't there. The only way to not fall into the trap of universalism is to recognize that it is talking about kinds of men.

 

[Rye]

"Ordained" is tasso in the Greek and means to place in order. There may be a possibility that what is meant is the emphasis on arrangement more than the placing such that a mechanism is in place for gentiles to be processed into eternal life. by their faith through Christ. What may be in view here is less the act of God on an individual basis and more the description of how God established a mechanism of gentiles to come out of an unsaved state to an orderly saved state.

If I may offer a correction, "tetagmenoi" is the Greek word being used and is a perfect passive. In other words, because God had appointed the Gentiles to eternal life in the past, the inevitable result was going to be that they would come to believe. I don't see the text implying in any, shape, or form that God only appointed the circumstances in which the Gentiles would choose to believe or not believe.

 

[Rye]

The Old Testament scripture reference is even given to show that gentile salvation was ordained.

Yes, there are references in the Old Testament about salvation being promised to the Gentiles. In that case, God either had to cross His fingers and hope that some of the Gentiles would get saved, or He would at least had to have forced some of the Gentiles to get saved so as not to turn His spoken prophecy into a failure.

 

[Silverhair]

There is a reason why I look at these verses and don't come to the same conclusions. Exegetically speaking, if Jesus is indeed the propitiation for the sins of every person in the whole and if He did in fact give Himself as a ransom for all of those people, that means everyone is saved. I can't read these texts and understand it to mean that Jesus can potentially do these things because the word "potential" isn't there. The only way to not fall into the trap of universalism is to recognize that this is talking about kinds of men.

But exegetically speaking, 1Jn 2:2 does not say that those Christ was the propitiation for, which is the whole world, were saved.

Regarding propitiation in 1J 2:2 W.E. Vine said this
"It is God who is "propitiated" by the vindication of His holy and righteous character, whereby through the provision He has made in the vicarious and expiatory sacrifice of Christ, He has so dealt with sin that He can show mercy to the believing sinner in the removal of his guilt and the remission of his sins."

M.G. Easton explained it this way:
"The propitiation does not procure his love or make him loving; it only renders it consistent for him to exercise his love towards sinners."
"It is the word employed by the LXX. translators in Exo_25:17 and elsewhere as the equivalent for the Hebrew kapporeth, which means “covering,” and is used of the lid of the ark of the covenant (Exo_25:21; Exo_30:6). This Greek word (hilasterion) came to denote not only the mercy-seat or lid of the ark, but also propitiation or reconciliation by blood."
"Christ is “the propitiation,” because by his becoming our substitute and assuming our obligations he expiated our guilt, covered it, by the vicarious punishment which he endured."

Which is just what Paul shows us here:
"if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins." 1Co 15:17
and here
"In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise," Eph 1:13

And what does this verse mean
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes," Rom 1:16

The propitiation covers our sins but only through faith in the risen Christ will one be saved.

 

[37818]

. . . if He did in fact give Himself as a ransom for all of those people, that means everyone is saved. . . .

But it doesn't.
What is NOT commonly understood about the new birth, it's prior to the new birth safety net for all little children being covered by it.

Matthew 18:3. Matthew 19:14.
Mark 10:14-15.
Luke 18:16-17.

 

[Van]

Eight pages of false doctrine so far and counting.

What does Acts 13:48 say?

Act 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.​

The Greek word, translated as "appointed" is "tasso" (G5021). The word appears in eight verses and is always used to indicate people accepting direction or an arrangement, rather than an unilateral placement.

Calvinists beat this dead horse incessantly, because they actually do not know what the word means in context.

In Matthew 28:16 the disciples chose to follow Christ's direction and went to the place "designated" (tasso) by Jesus.

In Luke 7:8 soldiers choose to follow the directions of their superior.

In Acts 15:2 Paul and others agree to take the direction to go to Jerusalem.

In Acts 22:10 Paul is told to go to Damascus where he will be told what is designated for his to do.

In Acts 28:23, A day is designated for Paul to preach and Paul follows that direction.

In Romans 13:1, governments are designated or arranged by God.

And in 1 Corinthians 15:16 people devoted (committed) themselves to ministry.

So the word is actually used in every case to indicate an arrangement by mutual agreement, not an unilateral action.

Therefore the actual message of Acts 13:48 is all those who accepted Paul's direction to eternal life believed. This is not rocket science.

Calvinism is built on mis-interpreting vague verses in order to pour man-made doctrine into the text.
Among these are 1 Corinthians 2:14, Romans 3:11, Ephesians 1:4,and Acts 13:48.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

The Greek word, translated as "appointed" is "tasso" (G5021). The word appears in eight verses and is always used to indicate people accepting direction or an arrangement, rather than an unilateral placement.

False, its usually being acted upon:

Definition: To arrange, to appoint, to order, to ordain
Meaning: (a) I assign, arrange, (b) I determine; mid: I appoint.

Word Origin: A primary verb

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Hebrew equivalent often associated with "tassó" is the verb "סָדַר" (sadar), which means to arrange or set in order. Another related term is "מָנָה" (manah), meaning to appoint or assign.

Usage: The Greek verb "tassó" primarily means to arrange or to set in order. It conveys the idea of appointing or ordaining something or someone to a specific position or task. In the New Testament, it is often used to describe the divine ordering or appointment of events, roles, or individuals according to God's sovereign will.

Cultural and Historical Background: In the Greco-Roman world, the concept of "tassó" was commonly used in military and governmental contexts to describe the arrangement of troops or the appointment of officials. This term reflects a structured and hierarchical society where roles and duties were clearly defined and assigned. In the biblical context, it underscores the belief in God's sovereign authority and His active role in the unfolding of history and the lives of individuals.

 

[Van]

@Van

False

 

[Rye]

The Greek word, translated as "appointed" is "tasso" (G5021).

I'm sorry sir but every Greek interlinear I've looked at renders it as "tetagmenoi". The lexical form of the root of "tetagmenoi" is "tasso" as the unaltered verbal form, however in this case the root is actually "tag" because it is passive.

I have listened to several Greek scholars present it this way and perhaps @John of Japan can jump in and explain it better than I can.

 

[DaveXR650]

Yes, there are references in the Old Testament about salvation being promised to the Gentiles. In that case, God either had to cross His fingers and hope that some of the Gentiles would get saved, or He would at least had to have forced some of the Gentiles to get saved so as not to turn His spoken prophecy into a failure.

Well. What is your opinion? I ask because your first statement about God having to cross his fingers might be true if we have autonomous free will. Your second statement, that God has to force some to believe or else his prophesy might be a failure goes against Calvinistic compatibility.

 

[Rye]

What is your opinion?

Neither. I was presenting the options to someone who may hold to the idea of autonomous free will. My bad, I should have been more clear on that. Anyway, my opinion is that God saved the exact number of Gentiles as He intended to save at that moment in time, not one more, not one less.

 

[Rye]

But exegetically speaking, 1Jn 2:2 does not say that those Christ was the propitiation for, which is the whole world, were saved.

I still don't see any room in the text to add this idea that He is the propitiation for every person in the whole world and it will only be applied when a person cooperates with God and chooses to come to faith. What I see is that He is the propitiation and it is applied right now without anybody's cooperation.

Now how do I know John isn't talk about every person in the whole world?

Because of the verse that came before...

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John is writing to believers (the you in this verse). So this must be speaking of believers out of the whole world, not every person in the whole world. But let's say for the sake of argument that it is speaking of the every person in the whole world. Every lost person right now, even though they haven't chosen to come to faith yet, do they have an advocate with the Father and in what way? If a person chooses remains lost, was Jesus' advocation a waste of time? If unbelief is a sin and Jesus advocated for that sin, then why bother coming to faith because it's already been taken care of? When we ask questions like this we see why it just doesn't work.

 

[Rye]

But it doesn't.
What is NOT commonly understood about the new birth, it's prior to the new birth safety net for all little children being covered by it.

Matthew 18:3. Matthew 19:14.
Mark 10:14-15.
Luke 18:16-17.

As per the scriptures you cited, the question is, is everyone able to will themselves to conversion, to come to Christ in child-like faith? I see in other places that isn't the case.

John 1:12-13 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[DaveXR650]

Anyway, my opinion is that God saved the exact number of Gentiles as He intended to save at that moment in time, not one more, not one less.

I would just say be careful because while God in his wisdom in a sense "intends" to save everyone who is saved that does not rule out all working of the wills of those involved and it doesn't necessarily imply as we would think from a human standpoint - that God actively does not want those who were not saved at that time to be saved. Acts 13:46 says "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the gentiles". Clearly, the blame for their failure to be saved is on them, not God, or else Paul and Barnabas were mistaken.

 

[Van]

I'm sorry sir but every Greek interlinear I've looked at renders it as "tetagmenoi". The lexical form of the root of "tetagmenoi" is "tasso" as the unaltered verbal form, however in this case the root is actually "tag" because it is passive.

I have listened to several Greek scholars present it this way and perhaps @John of Japan can jump in and explain it better than I can.

Tasso is always used in scripture to indicate an arrangement by mutual consent. I provided evidence from scripture,

Since they accepted the direction to eternal life from Paul, then Paul's direction acted upon them. Or we can say they accepted the direct, so we can say the verb could be either passive or middle and still indicate mutual agreement.

Reconsider Luke 7:8. Here the verb is passive but the person has "accepted" the authority for he is using it to command.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

Tasso is always used in scripture to indicate an arrangement by mutual consent. I provided evidence from scripture,

absolutely false and you haven't provided not one scripture for that falsehood

 

[Van]

@Van

absolutely false and you haven't provided not one scripture for that falsehood

Yet another Calvinist has revealed their heart.

 

[John of Japan]

I'm sorry sir but every Greek interlinear I've looked at renders it as "tetagmenoi". The lexical form of the root of "tetagmenoi" is "tasso" as the unaltered verbal form, however in this case the root is actually "tag" because it is passive.

I have listened to several Greek scholars present it this way and perhaps @John of Japan can jump in and explain it better than I can.

I'm not sure what is being asked or argued here. I had to go back and search just to see what the verse was! I have a busy day today grading (not that fun) and then teaching (fun!), but I came early so I can spend a few minutes (but I can't take time to read the whole thread). So the verse in question is Acts 13:48, right? The verb is tasso (τάσσω) and the form is tetagmenoi (τεταγμένοι) as said. It's a perfect passive participle in the nominative case. Since it's nominative, I'd say it's the subject of the sentence.

My go to quick reference lexicon says, "passive, in relation to properly constituted authority be instituted, be appointed, be established (RO 13.1); (2) passive, with an abstract noun ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον as many as had become disposed toward eternal life (possibly AC 13.48) or all those who were appointed to eternal life (probably AC 13.48)" (Friberg, Friberg & Miller, Analytical Lexicon of the Greek NT).

A. T. Robertson, my favorite old time Greek scholar, says, "Periphrastic past perfect passive indicative of tassô, a military term to place in orderly arrangement. The word 'ordain' is not the best translation here. 'Appointed,' as Hackett shows, is better. The Jews here had voluntarily rejected the word of God. On the other side were those Gentiles who gladly accepted what the Jews had rejected, not all the Gentiles. Why these Gentiles here ranged themselves on God's side as opposed to the Jews Luke does not tell us. This verse does not solve the vexed problem of divine sovereignty and human free agency. There is no evidence that Luke had in mind an absolutum decretum of personal salvation" (Word Pictures in the NT, accessed through PowerBible CD software).

 

[JesusFan]

I still don't see any room in the text to add this idea that He is the propitiation for every person in the whole world and it will only be applied when a person cooperates with God and chooses to come to faith. What I see is that He is the propitiation and it is applied right now without anybody's cooperation.

Now how do I know John isn't talk about every person in the whole world?

Because of the verse that came before...

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John is writing to believers (the you in this verse). So this must be speaking of believers out of the whole world, not every person in the whole world. But let's say for the sake of argument that it is speaking of the every person in the whole world. Every lost person right now, even though they haven't chosen to come to faith yet, do they have an advocate with the Father and in what way? If a person chooses remains lost, was Jesus' advocation a waste of time? If unbelief is a sin and Jesus advocated for that sin, then why bother coming to faith because it's already been taken care of? When we ask questions like this we see why it just doesn't work.

As a Baptist calvinist, just find it not biblically sound to hold to full free will gospel, as we do not coperate with God to permit Him to be able to now save us

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another Calvinist has revealed their heart.

You are being misleading about the word appointed/ordained in Acts 13:48