Are all already condemned by God, or ONLY after rejecting Christ?

[Luke2427]

:thumbs::applause:
Correct: I have the profound joy of working at a prison where homo-sexual acts are commonplace. The same person may have NEVER considered such acts until they arrive, and often (if they get out) never repeat the same actions again...
It's something they DO ....and there's even a disciplinary code for it:
(205) :type:
They aren't "Homosexuals".....they are perverted men who choose to satiate their lusts in perverse ways:
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

I work weekly with prisoners at SMCI and observe the same thing.

But this does not address the question.

Even for these prisoners who are only "temporarily" homosexual, when do they BECOME homosexual?

When do they STOP being homosexual?

I contend it is a heart issue before it is a deed performed.

A sinner is NOT simply one who does certain deeds outwardly. Before he does them outwardly they fester in his heart.

I think you know this.

It is over-simplistic to say that one is only a sinner when he actually physically commits a sin.

 

[Luke2427]

The key is proceed. From the heart these things are done, they are not wired into the heart. The heart means simply self serving, the only command in the satanist bible, "do what thou wilt"

No, that is not the key at all.

The context clearly has Christ teaching that sin develops in the heart, not with the hands.

That is the CLEAR teaching of that passage in its context.

Sin is not JUST something you do on the outside it is something you entertain on the inside.

Jesus taught this unequivocally with such teachings as the adultery of the heart and murder in the heart.

You are GUILTY of both of these BEFORE you perform them outwardly.

Nothing Jesus ever said was any clearer than that.

 

[Luke2427]

Depends on how you define 'become a homosexual'. He has committed a homo act.

It depends on how he proceeds from that point on.

By definition, yes. Christ also added when he lusts after another man.

So one is not a homosexual except during the few minutes in which he is committing the act??

Nothing could be further from biblical teaching.

No. Does any one sin 'brand' any of us for life?

No. You would just have him be pristine clean and morally perfect except for those moments in which he is PHYSICALLY sinning.

If he dies in his dreamless sleep, he dies PERFECT. What right does God have to judge him for what he WAS? God should only judge him for what he IS and according to you he IS perfect so long as he is not ACTUALLY in the very ACT of committing sin.

That may be a bit extreme but I will say this- you LITERALLY have people NOT being sinners except during those fleeting moments while they are actually committing physical sins.

 

[Aaron]

Honestly, man....your last two posts were indescribably stupid. . . .

You just disagree with them. This thread is nearing the closing point and I cut to the chase. I didn't argue the conclusion of the matter, I simply stated it.

 

[Iconoclast]

And so it goes. Hard-heartedly clinging to his carnal notions of justice and illusions of self-importance, the noncalvinist insists the sky is green and will not yield to the light of nature, nor texts of Scripture. He invents a new gospel that allows for his corruptions and exalts his sense of worth.

Calvinism offers no excuse. You are corrupt from conception and you are not excused. You're hellbound unless by the will and mercy of God, He intervenes, and He is no respecter of persons. There is no power that you possess by nature by which you can hear and understand the Gospel. You have no advantage over the infant.

Calvinism is the only doctrine that allows for the salvation of infants wholly and completely according the Gospel that was delivered by the Apostles. You can have your counterfeit.

Great post Aaron....unfortunatly on a thread dealing with what actually took place in the fall...many here on BB cannot welcome the truth...so they will call everyone names who understands it:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:

And so it goes. Hard-heartedly clinging to his carnal notions of justice and illusions of self-importance, the noncalvinist insists the sky is green and will not yield to the light of nature, nor texts of Scripture. He invents a new gospel that allows for his corruptions and exalts his sense of worth.

You see it in this thread....thats all they have.

 

[psalms109:31]

I question no ones salvation but my own. And pray to be in the kingdom of God with each and everyone of you.

We should know we are saved and we know by what we do, and we do it because of what Jesus has done.

I will not argue my responsibility to remain in Christ no matter what i know or don't know even if i doubt myself and I am saved because of Him, being in Christ.

I do know without intervention from God through His messenger a burning bush or what ever the messenger is not important it is who sent it and the message is what is important. So without God coming down my path, I have been predetermined for condemnation. I am not emotion like some that will not face the that truth, if my brother, my mom, my dad, and my children( at the working state when ever that starts)never hear the Gospel of their salvation having believed they will face that condemnation and not be counted as one of the elect.

Faith without deeds is dead period. Faith without action is dead.

2 Corinthians 5:
16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[Or Christ, that person is a new creation.] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[Or be a sin offering] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

We all know how to know we are saved by Jesus is by our action, we can say all we want to it is because God chose me all you want for nothing i did, but that is how to tell by what you do.

That person deep in some where who never heard the Gospel and believed is going to face condemnation and God sent out His elect to reach them, to the ends of the earth our ends of the Earth not just Paul's.

That infant or mental retarded who can't comprehend the Gospel can't work to rest, so they are already in the rest that the saved are.

David knew where his son will be who died in infancy and we to should know where they end up.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Great post Aaron....unfortunatly on a thread dealing with what actually took place in the fall...many here on BB cannot welcome the truth...

That's nonsense...Almost everyone on this board who does NOT believe in Original Guilt did so for years without issue. I did for ages, I was TAUGHT it. I didn't particularly have a "problem" "accepting" it. You think what you consider to be the "truth" is often SOOO difficult to accept. And that somehow it is only the enlightened who are able to "accept" the "hard-truth".

What's ACTUALLY "hard" is to accept that you might have been "WRONG" about something all your life and alter your understanding based upon Scripture and break from a tradition.....That's hard. "Hard" is to admit you have been mistaken.

so they will call everyone names who understands

No one was calling anyone "names". You mis-construe your opposition as per usual as you simultaneously psyco-analyze their psyche and motivation. Here's a hint:
You're not very good at it.

You see it in this thread....thats all they have.

Actually, I see your opposition posting More and More diverse Scriptures over and over again in order to demonstrate their point.
If you did a word-count of posted Scripture used by those who disagree with you, you would probably find roughly 3.5 times as much Scripture used and exegeted than your point of view has used. Obviously, that is not alone the standard by which we judge the truth of the matter, it just proves you are deliberately diluding yourself if you think "THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE"... It is provably false.
But eep telling yourself that, you'll actually start to believe it one day, you may have already dilluded yourself that far already. It wouldn't surprise me. You make that sweeping and inane statement on almost EVERY thread, along with a few select other random sweeping accusations. You type it out probably 4 times a week.:type:
What is it you have Icon? A few scattered verses, and interminably long rantings about the term "have sinned" by a select group of writers who agree with your pre-supposition :laugh:
That sir...is all YOU have.

 

[webdog]

Great post Aaron....unfortunatly on a thread dealing with what actually took place in the fall...many here on BB cannot welcome the truth...so they will call everyone names who understands it:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:




You see it in this thread....thats all they have.

when will you finally grasp the truth?

 

[webdog]

No, that is not the key at all.

The context clearly has Christ teaching that sin develops in the heart, not with the hands.

That is the CLEAR teaching of that passage in its context.

Sin is not JUST something you do on the outside it is something you entertain on the inside.

Jesus taught this unequivocally with such teachings as the adultery of the heart and murder in the heart.

You are GUILTY of both of these BEFORE you perform them outwardly.

Nothing Jesus ever said was any clearer than that.

Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

What you have typed above is in direct contradiction to the truth here. Entertaining sin (desire) is not sin per James. Jesus was addressing sin committed in the heart, not temptation or desire.

 

[webdog]

So one is not a homosexual except during the few minutes in which he is committing the act??

that would depend on the person and situation.

Nothing could be further from biblical teaching

.which teaching?

Blah, blah, blah
If he dies in his dreamless sleep, he dies PERFECT. What right does God have to judge him for what he WAS? God should only judge him for what he IS and according to you he IS perfect so long as he is not ACTUALLY in the very ACT of committing sin.

That may be a bit extreme but I will say this- you LITERALLY have people NOT being sinners except during those fleeting moments while they are actually committing physical sins.

back to straw men, misrepresenting, false accusations...typical stuff to be expected

 

[Luke2427]

Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

What you have typed above is in direct contradiction to the truth here. Entertaining sin (desire) is not sin per James. Jesus was addressing sin committed in the heart, not temptation or desire.

Sin committed in the heart is what I am talking about.

It is in the heart before it is done with the hands.

A murderer, according to Christ, is a murderer at heart even if he has never committed a single murder.

 

[Luke2427]

that would depend on the person and situation.

.which teaching?




back to straw men, misrepresenting, false accusations...typical stuff to be expected

So you are out of arguments then?

You cannot address what you falsely identify as straw men because they are not straw men- they represent precisely what you contend in this thread.

 

[webdog]

So you are out of arguments then?

You cannot address what you falsely identify as straw men because they are not straw men- they represent precisely what you contend in this thread.

I don't argue strawmwn anymore, so yes, you can say I'm out of arguments. The following is as dumb as it gets, in all honesty. Unworthy of my time and effort in refuting something you know I don't believe.

"If he dies in his dreamless sleep, he dies PERFECT. What right does God have to judge him for what he WAS? God should only judge him for what he IS and according to you he IS perfect so long as he is not ACTUALLY in the very ACT of committing sin."

 

[webdog]

Sin committed in the heart is what I am talking about.

It is in the heart before it is done with the hands.

A murderer, according to Christ, is a murderer at heart even if he has never committed a single murder.

yes...sin COMMITTED in the heart. According to you and the rest of the Augistinians, the very heart brands one a sinner, not COMMITTING sin.

 

[psalms109:31]

Pharisees did things for an outside appearance not because they were changed because of the inside they were filled with dead things.

That Jesus is calling us to repent turn to Him our life. Exposed them for what they are on the inside. Sin happens the way James says it does he doesn't contradiction Jesus.

It is self righteousness to believe we are righteous until Jesus says my good and faithful servant.

I do feel sorry for those who stand before Him think they are saved and He say's to them.

Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

We do need to repent turn to Jesus when we have evil thoughts and not come to a point where it gives birth to sin

 

[Luke2427]

I don't argue strawmwn anymore, so yes, you can say I'm out of arguments. The following is as dumb as it gets, in all honesty. Unworthy of my time and effort in refuting something you know I don't believe.

"If he dies in his dreamless sleep, he dies PERFECT. What right does God have to judge him for what he WAS? God should only judge him for what he IS and according to you he IS perfect so long as he is not ACTUALLY in the very ACT of committing sin."

I agree it is dumb. It is what you believe and it is truly dumb. You are right.

 

[Luke2427]

yes...sin COMMITTED in the heart. According to you and the rest of the Augistinians, the very heart brands one a sinner, not COMMITTING sin.

That's exactly right. According to me, Augustine, the Apostle Paul and Jesus Christ one is a sinner in his HEART before he ever commits sin.

That is right.

It is called Christian doctrine.

It is what Christians believe who believe in this thing called the BIBLE.

 

[webdog]

I agree it is dumb. It is what you believe and it is truly dumb. You are right.

Dumb is telling someone else what they believe. Either that or you are just plain dishonest. Either way it doesn't reflect well on you.

 

[webdog]

That's exactly right. According to me, Augustine, the Apostle Paul and Jesus Christ one is a sinner in his HEART before he ever commits sin.

That is right.

It is called Christian doctrine.

It is what Christians believe who believe in this thing called the BIBLE.

Are you questioning my salvation now, oh king of the trolls?

Apparently you don't understand sin committed in the heart compared to your false doctrine of the heart itself making you a sinner. Come back when you can discern the two.

 

[Luke2427]

Dumb is telling someone else what they believe. Either that or you are just plain dishonest. Either way it doesn't reflect well on you.

Dumb is stating something that necessitates that you believe something then denying it.

You literally SAID you believe one is only a sinner WHEN he sins.

You literally SAID you believe one is NOT a sinner when he is not sinning.

So that NECESSITATES what you call dumb.

I agree. It is dumb. No ARMINIAN would even agree with it. It is dumb.

You are right.