The Augustinians have given the world the perfect excuse for their sin...it was simply hard wired in.
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Are all already condemned by God, or ONLY after rejecting Christ?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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...and on cue Error'in come charging in with his straw man buddy. You have the comprehension skills of Pelosi, but even she said you have to actually read something to understand it.
And so it goes. Hard-heartedly clinging to his carnal notions of justice and illusions of self-importance, the noncalvinist insists the sky is green and will not yield to the light of nature, nor texts of Scripture. He invents a new gospel that allows for his corruptions and exalts his sense of worth.
Calvinism offers no excuse. You are corrupt from conception and you are not excused. You're hellbound unless by the will and mercy of God, He intervenes, and He is no respecter of persons. There is no power that you possess by nature by which you can hear and understand the Gospel. You have no advantage over the infant.
Calvinism is the only doctrine that allows for the salvation of infants wholly and completely according the Gospel that was delivered by the Apostles. You can have your counterfeit.
IMHO the nature of Adam concerning death came in the flesh, because of our sins and or the sin of the world, was passed to him through the seed of the woman and for birth to not also bring forth sin it was necessary for the woman to be a virgin and for the generator, Father, to be the Spirit God.
I believe this passage is referring to virgin birth. YLT 1 John 5:6 This one is he who did come through water and blood -- Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood;
Something about the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil bringing forth trespasses and sins bringing death is of a sexual nature thus the necessity of the woman, taken from the man created in the image of God, being a virgin from whom the lamb without spot or blemish ordained, from before the man was created, would come into the world for redemption in his blood, death.
The eating of the fruit corrupted the purity of the last two verses of chapter 2 of Genesis.
Jesus said that when God said; For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Matt. 19:5 That God married them: Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
And in that purity of the beginning it was not so there needed not to be a bill of divorcement. Read all of Matt 19:5-15 and Gen 2:23 -3:19 and compare keeping in mind how all this is relative to the kingdom of God. Especially when in the story of the rich man and Lazarus which concerns the kingdom of God the passage used in Matt 19:9 is used there also yet seems out of place.
Let me know what you think.
I think this is relative to the OP?
I don't know if it was hard wired in or not but one thing for sure, everyone has been successful at it.
You have to give them credit their, "believing," is equal to the righteousness of the Pharisees.
Honestly, man....your last two posts were indescribably stupid. You ARE acrtually a smart guy (at least, a particularly clever one). You are quite the word-smith at least, and clever in your descriptions sometimes. But these last two posts of yours were elementary at best. You are WAY better than this. I think you are being lazy and not even putting thought into them. You are perfectly capable of better arguments than this. You do neither yourself nor Calvinism any credit with this pablum... I think you know this.
Questioning the salvation of others on this board is against board rules.
Everyone will sin, nobody has argued to the contrary. T
Your false deterministic theology is what gives man an excuse. Turn away from traditions of men to the truth of Scripture.
He merely likes to agitate then read his own posts.
I question no ones salvation but my own. And pray to be in the kingdom of God with each and everyone of you.
Equating our 'believing' to that of he righteousness of the pharisees was what, then?
The only things I believe to be deterministic are these two determined from the foundation of the world.
A. Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver and gold, from your vain conversation, by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
B. In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
All else happen's in accordance to those, including my salvation to be received.
HisWitness
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still Jesus did not come through man but God--theres a difference
To that: Boiled down, Aaron’s argument is that God unchangably pre-determined that some men would be born corrupted to do and love only evil – demonstrating his belief that corruption is acceptable to God as long as He is the One who caused said act of corruption.
Indeed!
No one...has taken inarguable Scriptural truth and demonstrated that all of man-kind are "sinners" and wicked and "guilty" at (and only by) virtue of their conception. This is NOT Scriptural...and there is no level of rightly divided Scripture which teaches as much. It is a mere tradition of men.
One must firstly assume that "Sin" is something which can be genetically transfered for starters....and then they must demonstrate that it is imparted through Adam...(The Guilt itself, not the propensity to do wrong because that is accepted).
The Apostle Paul explains clearly in I Corinthians chapter 15...that ALL CREATION "groans" because of Adam's sin:
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Therefore, they suffer death...but that does not make dogs and cats and wolverines "sinful"...it makes them accursed...and they groan...so do the gazelles they prey upon. When there are inadequate prey animals...the carnivores starve, and when there is inadequate grass due to lack of rain, the prey animals starve. If there are no predators to take out the weaker prey animals, then they over-populate. Death makes life possible for both predator and prey....All of creation now groans, and is only held in balance by the precarious vicious death of predator and prey....It is SICK...But it is EXACTLY what Adam caused upon all of creation. Death and starvation and pain......but NOT "Guilt"...That is not Scripture.
It's so simple.
YET!! Christ is the "first-fruits" of the resurrection...thus, since we all "Die" in Adam (a Scriptural precept)...so all of us shall be made "Alive" in Christ...
Even the Damned shall be Resurrected: <---and this is the Scripture which states such:
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
In "Adam" all...DIE...In Christ All shall be made "ALIVE"...Even the non-regenerate sinner....EVERYONE gets resurrected. The righteous and the wicked...The righteous unto life..and the wicked unto Damnation. The Scriptures are so clear, and they explain themselves.
One must firstly assume that "Sin" is something which can be genetically transfered for starters....and then they must demonstrate that it is imparted through Adam...(The Guilt itself, not the propensity to do wrong because that is accepted).
The Apostle Paul explains clearly in I Corinthians chapter 15...that ALL CREATION "groans" because of Adam's sin:
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Therefore, they suffer death...but that does not make dogs and cats and wolverines "sinful"...it makes them accursed...and they groan...so do the gazelles they prey upon. When there are inadequate prey animals...the carnivores starve, and when there is inadequate grass due to lack of rain, the prey animals starve. If there are no predators to take out the weaker prey animals, then they over-populate. Death makes life possible for both predator and prey....All of creation now groans, and is only held in balance by the precarious vicious death of predator and prey....It is SICK...But it is EXACTLY what Adam caused upon all of creation. Death and starvation and pain......but NOT "Guilt"...That is not Scripture.
It's so simple.
YET!! Christ is the "first-fruits" of the resurrection...thus, since we all "Die" in Adam (a Scriptural precept)...so all of us shall be made "Alive" in Christ...
Even the Damned shall be Resurrected: <---and this is the Scripture which states such:
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
In "Adam" all...DIE...In Christ All shall be made "ALIVE"...Even the non-regenerate sinner....EVERYONE gets resurrected. The righteous and the wicked...The righteous unto life..and the wicked unto Damnation. The Scriptures are so clear, and they explain themselves.
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Exactly. 1 Corinthians 15:22 is the one and only time in all of scripture that the term "in Adam" is used, and it is speaking of physical death only. The entire 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians is known as "The Resurrection Chapter". It is not saying that all men spiritually died in Adam. In fact, it does not say all men have died (past tense), it says in Adam all die (future tense).
This verse has been pulled out of context by those who believe in Original Sin and abused to teach that all men spiritually died in Adam. It says no such thing.
And that is all they have, there is no other scripture that even says "in Adam".
Pre-determined?
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.
Romans 11:8
Did God have them born that way, or at 6 Mo., 5 yrs., 12 yrs., 25 yrs.? Does it matter they are in unbelief and are broken off for that unbelief. Were they born of the flesh?
Is this talking about heaven or hell? Entering the kingdom of God or not entering the kingdom of God?
Can God graft them the back in again? Is there an age limit to this? Does he have to graft them back in by 6 mo., 5 yrs., 12 yrs., 25 yrs.?
What if they die the death the sin of Adam brought them before they are grafted back in, can God resurrect them in Christ and then graft them in?
Is God calling out of people born of the flesh, a people for his name to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God which requires being born again with eternal life or is God choosing some for eternal life in heaven and the rest he is going to send to hell?
I believe God is electing but not the election of J Calvin.
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True, absolutely true. Scripture explaining clear Scripture alone.
God uses the Scriptures to say EXACTLY what he wanted to say.
I Quote and edit you for the sake of making the point. IF the Scriptures themselves are the standard by which we understand all other Scripture, and, IF the Apostle Paul is the one who describes to us, specifically, what happened at the fall, "In Adam"...then, that is HIS terminology...and he tells us what he means...and what Paul says is that all of us "DIE"...in fact, he says all "CREATION"..."groans" or "dies"...because of Adam...
Paul isn't claiming that all animals and insects are sinners..he isn't claiming that all lions and wolves are "sinful"...he is stating that they are the example of the Universal Pain of Death...that Adam brought.
He clearly places this in the contra-distinction of "LIFE" that Christ brings, as the "first-fruits" of the "Ressurection"..
"Ressurection"...isn't a tricky word..."Ressurection" means that a dead body...will rise again, and be made ALIVE...the body will live again.
BOTH the Saved and the Damned will be "Resurrected"....the righteous unto "life" and the "damned" to destruction.
That's PURE BIBLE, PURE SCRIPTURE, and any who seek to deny this will argue falsely:
"IN Adam".....all "DIE" (this even includes the animals)<---he was given mastery and stewardship of them at creation no???? or, does no one read the Bible anymore.
Adam failed...and therefore Paul states that all of creation (of which he was the steward) "groans" and "dies"...That's Bible. That's Scripture.
Q.E.D.
If I am not mistaken that is what this scripture means.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,
All are concluded under the sin of Adam.
Other scriptures state all have sinned.
You do not have to be born again because of your sin but because the sin of Adam has brought corruption to the creation. That born of the flesh is flesh.
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