Are all of God's Ten Commandments still valid?

[Salty]

And the Branch Davidians came out of the Davidian church. Which has nothing to do with this thread.

Not according to this link - if it is incorrect, please provide a credible link

 

[DHK]

Iconoclast offers this timid reminder that he just might endorse the 7 points of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" though he is careful not to admit it outright. So not sure where he stands.

The point still stands, and unanswered from the beginning. I will repeat it:

We're not the ones with the problem; you are.
You have yet to show a single verse from the NT where it commands believers to keep the Sabbath. Not one verse Bob. This discussion is dead.

 

[DHK]

No! It is you and other disciples of Ms. White who apparently are unhappy with what God has revealed to man through His Word.

But one must concede that if Ms. White generated 50,000 pages of bull she has a vivid imagination. It is this sort of radical revelation nonsense that led to David Koresh and the Waco tragedy in Texas about 20 years ago.

An interesting example:

Mrs. White condemned the wearing of jewelry as idolatry against God:

"The Lord God of heaven calls upon man to put away their idols, to cut off every extravagant desire, to indulge in nothing that is simply--for display and parade, and to study economy in purchasing garments and furniture. Do not expend one dollar of God's money in purchasing needless articles. Your money means the salvation of souls. Then let it not be spent for gems, for gold, or precious stones."1

Mrs. White makes it clear God is calling on Adventists to "put away their idols" of jewelry that are used "for display and parade". Could it be that Ellen White, while telling others to put away their jewelry, was herself indulging in the "idols"?

On the left is a photograph of Ellen White with her twin sister Elizabeth at age 51. Notice that Ellen is displaying a decorative brooch on her collar and is parading a decorative chain. This photograph was taken 15 years after she condemned others for wearing similar "idols" of jewelry:2

"To dress plainly, abstaining from display of jewelry and ornaments of every kind, is in keeping with our faith."3

http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/contra7.htm

By OT standards she would be stoned to death.

 

[BobRyan]

Not according to this link - if it is incorrect, please provide a credible link

Your link says "we are Christian Davidians; ....We are not affiliated with other Davidian associations, and we are not Branch Davidians."

I have no idea who they are at your link.


Here is a source/link some people may actually know about.

The Branch Davidians (also known as "The Branch") are a religious group that originated in 1955 from a schism in the Davidian Seventh-day Adventists ("Davidians"),

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidians

Which has nothing to do with this thread.


As for the real Davidians from which the Branch Davidians split - as noted in the article above...

Davidian Seventh-day Adventist is the official title given to the adherents of a layman’s reform movement that arose from within the Seventh-day Adventist Church. The late Victor T. Houteff, a Bulgarian immigrant who became a convert to the Seventh-day Adventist faith in 1919, founded the movement in the 1930s. Davidians are best identified and most widely known by the name of its first publication, The Shepherd’s Rod; however, the organization itself considers it incorrect to refer to the adherents of the movement by this title.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davidian_Seventh-day_Adventist

The actual group that split was known as "Shepherd's Rod" and I don't really know what they believe or how that changed to become then Davidians or what the fuss was that caused them to expel the Branch Davidians and also Vernon Wayne Howelll (aka Koresh).


================ so then back to the actual topic with a short note --

1. Hint the Lutherans came out of the Catholic Church.

Methodists came out of the Anglican Church which came out of the Catholic Church. How long will you blame the Catholics for every idea that Methodists have??

And the Branch Davidians came out of the Davidian church. Which has nothing to do with this thread.

2. If you have a single shred of a post on the actual topic of this thread - for me to respond to -- and I have not... then please point it out to us.

3. Now is this your way of being too timid to endorse the "Baptist Confession of Faith" with its section 19 - a document endorsing all seven points listed in the OP. Timid perhaps because a couple of posters here are at war with all 7 of its points from section 19 and 22??

Is that possible? Is that what we are seeing? really?

I always thought of you as a "stand and be counted" sort of poster.

 

[BobRyan]

Everyone I have asked about the 7 point list and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" who chooses to be at war with it - admits to it quickly.

So it may be safe to say that those who hedge and hesitate almost too timid to endorse, and not opposing Spurgeon and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" or "D.L. Moody" on this thread - are likely "supporters" . It may be that they prefer having an SDA support those first 6 points from the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- I can hardly blame them given that there are some pretty good SDA Bible scholars.

 

[DHK]

Everyone I have asked about the 7 point list and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" who chooses to be at war with it - admits to it quickly.

So it may be safe to say that those who hedge and hesitate almost too timid to endorse, and not opposing Spurgeon and the "Baptist Confession of Faith" or "D.L. Moody" on this thread - are likely "supporters" . It may be that they prefer having an SDA support those first 6 points from the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- I can hardly blame them given that there are some pretty good SDA Bible scholars.

Not the Confessions of Faith, not any of the scholars that you have listed are in favor of the SDA Sabbath. So the real question remains as has been asked previously:

We're not the ones with the problem; you are.
You have yet to show a single verse from the NT where it commands believers to keep the Sabbath. Not one verse Bob.

 

[OldRegular]

Ryan

There are several Baptist Confessions. Which one are you talking about. I clicked on Baptist Confessions in the OP and got some chat Forum with Bob Ryan doing the same thing he does on the BB: Quote his own posts over and over and over and ad infinitum!

I will make this one comment Ryan. Baptist are a people of the Bible; not a cult like SDA. We have no tendency to follow the teachings of one person or group of persons as the SDA follow the author of 50,000 pages of new revelation supposedly given to Ms. White. You never did say whether she got it on Gold Leaves like Adam Smith or whether it was written in King James English!

 

[OldRegular]

1. Hint the Lutherans came out of the Catholic Church.

Methodists came out of the Anglican Church which came out of the Catholic Church. How long will you blame the Catholics for every idea that Methodists have??

Evidence please!

And the Branch Davidians came out of the Davidian church. Which has nothing to do with this thread.

It has everything to do with this thread. I noted earlier in post #255 that the claim of "new revelation" often initiates heresy and Koresh and Branch Davidian is an example of that. You cannot deny it!

2. If you have a single shred of a post on the actual topic of this thread - for me to respond to -- and I have not... then please point it out to us.

I did. You simply ignore it making bizarre and childish remarks about the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

3. Now is this your way of being too timid to endorse the "Baptist Confession of Faith" with its section 19 - a document endorsing all seven points listed in the OP. Timid perhaps because a couple of posters here are at war with all 7 of its points from section 19 and 22??

I have already responded {post #267} to that nonsensical claim.

Is that possible? Is that what we are seeing? really?

I always thought of you as a "stand and be counted" sort of poster.

I never make light of the significance of the single most important event in history, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, as you did!

 

[BobRyan]

Here we see the 7 point list affirmed

Here is a perfect example of those 6 points -- (and perhaps even all 7) being affirmed.

I don't believe either D.L. Moody or C.H. Spurgeon were SDA - yet they could honestly admit to some Bible details that some here claim only SDAs could know about.

For example --

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY​

The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17 ​

.
The Fourth Commandment

​

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; [/FONT] __________________


Now let's compare that to the statement in the OP

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

 

[BobRyan]

Here we see the claims made in the OP

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================
Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments (see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes from Moses and the TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16

--------------------------

From another web site

-- #297 (Baptist Confession of Faith)

#13 (D.L. Moody)

==================================
A small list of pro-sunday scholarship affirming 7 of the 7 points listed in the OP

"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"
and many others

 

[BobRyan]

here we see the ONLY links ever posted on this thread for the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

If someone else has another document by that name with just as much recognition -- and section 19 reads differently - they have been silent about it.

Hint: Find two called the "BAPTIST Confession of Faith" that are held by as many Baptists. -- and look at section 19.

Meanwhile --

[FONT=&quot]Links that remain as of today[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc01.html[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc19.html[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Links that have been removed[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm#Ch19 [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]As revised by Spurgeon 1855[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

Ryan

There are several Baptist Confessions. Which one are you talking about. I clicked on Baptist Confessions in the OP and got some chat Forum !

If you google it you can find it -- or just look at my prior post. #271

Which is just a re-post of -- #226

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
1. Hint the Lutherans came out of the Catholic Church.

Methodists came out of the Anglican Church which came out of the Catholic Church. How long will you blame the Catholics for every idea that Methodists have??

Evidence please!

Are you asking for evidence of the Protestant Reformation and the origin of the Methodist and Lutheran churches??

Really???

questioning the protestant reformation flies as an argument for Baptists???

I never would have guessed.

Back to the actual topic...

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Here we see the 7 point list affirmed

There was nothing affirmed there. It is the same old copy and paste we have seen dozens of times now. It is the same document where Moody distances himself from the SDA. How ironical that you post it.
This Congregational 19th century evangelist (1837-99) is not an authority for Baptists.
But the real question remains:

We're not the ones with the problem; you are.
You have yet to show a single verse from the NT where it commands believers to keep the Sabbath. Not one verse Bob.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

<<<We're not the ones with the problem; you are.
You have yet to show a single verse from the NT where it commands believers to keep the Sabbath. Not one verse Bob.>>>

Oh yes, you -- DHK and the Baptists just like Bob Ryan and the SDAs -- are stuck with the same problem(s).

First you and all Sundaydarians as well as Sabbatharians have yet to show a single verse from the New OR Old Testament where the Word of God speaks about the First Day of the week like “God _THUS_ concerning the Seventh Day spake”,
namely, that God in Christ Jesus “ON THE SABBATH”, “finished all his works and RESTED” : “finished” and “rested”, “having RAISED Him from the dead”, “In the fullness of the Sabbath”.
Which single fact underlies every mention of the Sabbath throughout all the Bible and constitutes the basis and essence and provides all SENSE for the Commandment of the Sabbath Day’s observance by the People of God everywhere and in every age as it is urged upon in all Scriptures ALIKE. In fact as God spake in “ALL the Scriptures concerning the Christ”!

It is nothing exceptional; the Sabbath in every facet of believers’ life and labour and hope and trust and assurance is integral part of God’s WORD and their, LIFE.

And last: You have yet to show a single verse from the NT or OT for that matter, where it commands believers to keep the First Day of the week. Not one verse, DHK! … NOT ONE!

 

[DHK]

<<<We're not the ones with the problem; you are.
You have yet to show a single verse from the NT where it commands believers to keep the Sabbath. Not one verse Bob.>>>

Yes, he does. That is their religion's mandate.
EGW declared that those who do not keep the sabbath but rather worship on Sunday instead have the Mark of the Beast!!!!!!!
This is a very serious offense for them, and a very serious allegation against any Christian.

Oh yes, you -- DHK and the Baptists just like Bob Ryan and the SDAs -- are stuck with the same problem(s).

And last: You have yet to show a single verse from the NT or OT for that matter, where it commands believers to keep the First Day of the week. Not one verse, DHK! … NOT ONE!

What silliness. A ridiculous post.
I don't believe that the Sabbath needs to be kept; there is no command for any believer to keep it.
I don't believe that Sunday needs "to be kept"; there is no command for it either. It is tradition.

The command is:
1. "as oft as you gather." Therefore the command is to gather. It doesn't say when, where, what time, etc. That decision is all left up to each individual local church.

2. The command is:
"forsake not the assembling of yourselves together."
We don't forsake the assembling of ourselves together. We do it regularly. There is no command anywhere in the Bible to gather together on a specific day, at a specific time, place, etc. Nothing at. all!!
You allegations are absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

<<<We're not the ones with the problem; you are.
You have yet to show a single verse from the NT where it commands believers to keep the Sabbath. Not one verse Bob.>>>

Oh yes, you -- DHK and the Baptists just like Bob Ryan and the SDAs -- are stuck with the same problem(s).
First you and all Sundaydarians as well as Sabbatharians have yet to show a single verse from the New OR Old Testament where the Word of God speaks about the First Day of the week like “God _THUS_ concerning the Seventh Day spake”,
namely, that God in Christ Jesus “ON THE SABBATH”, “finished all his works and RESTED” : “finished” and “rested”, “having RAISED Him from the dead”, “In the fullness of the Sabbath”.
Which single fact underlies every mention of the Sabbath throughout all the Bible and constitutes the basis and essence and provides all SENSE for the Commandment of the Sabbath Day’s observance by the People of God everywhere and in every age as it is urged upon in all Scriptures ALIKE. In fact as God spake in “ALL the Scriptures concerning the Christ”!
It is nothing exceptional; the Sabbath in every facet of believers’ life and labour and hope and trust and assurance is integral part of God’s WORD and their, LIFE.
And last: You have yet to show a single verse from the NT or OT for that matter, where it commands believers to keep the First Day of the week. Not one verse, DHK! … NOT ONE!

“We see Jesus raised from the dead… crowned with glory and honour for the suffering of death… saying, I will declare Thy Name unto my BRETHREN: in the midst of the CHURCH will I sing praise unto Thee.
“We see Jesus having raised from the dead… destroy him (the devil) that had the power of death.”
“We see Jesus as rose He from the dead… that He might through death deliver THEM who through fear of death were subject to bondage.”
“Again we see Jesus raised from the dead… saying, Behold, I and and the CHILDREN which God hath given Me.”
“We see Jesus Himself having been raised up from the dead… has brought MANY SONS unto glory.”
“We see Jesus brought again from the dead… for which cause He is not ashamed to call them BRETHREN”.

Each time in the Scriptures that we see Jesus as on the Day of his Resurrection raised from the dead, we see his CHURCH in his Resurrection as on the Day of his Resurrection assembled together. We see Jesus in the day that the LORD sware unto them that He would bring them IN, on. “For God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake”, and “of no other day after, would speak again”.

God never spoke such word concerning the First Day of the week or Sunday -- no, not ever, in which "WE SEE JESUS", "THUS", and His Church, “thus”, “IN HIM”.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Yes, he does. That is their religion's mandate.
EGW declared that those who do not keep the sabbath but rather worship on Sunday instead have the Mark of the Beast!!!!!!!
This is a very serious offense for them, and a very serious allegation against any Christian.

What silliness. A ridiculous post.
I don't believe that the Sabbath needs to be kept; there is no command for any believer to keep it.
I don't believe that Sunday needs "to be kept"; there is no command for it either. It is tradition.

The command is:
1. "as oft as you gather." Therefore the command is to gather. It doesn't say when, where, what time, etc. That decision is all left up to each individual local church.

2. The command is:
"forsake not the assembling of yourselves together."
We don't forsake the assembling of ourselves together. We do it regularly. There is no command anywhere in the Bible to gather together on a specific day, at a specific time, place, etc. Nothing at. all!!
You allegations are absolutely ridiculous.

I could not have wished for a more efficient 'reply'.

Thanks DHK, it suffices above expectations.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The command is:
1. "as oft as you gather." Therefore the command is to gather. It doesn't say when, where, what time, etc. That decision is all left up to each individual local church.

2. The command is:
"forsake not the assembling of yourselves together."
We don't forsake the assembling of ourselves together. We do it regularly. There is no command anywhere in the Bible to gather together on a specific day, at a specific time, place, etc. Nothing at. all!!
You allegations are absolutely ridiculous.

O yes, <<it>>, does, <<say when, where, what time, etc.>>.

<<It>> --- the whole of NEW Testament Sitz im Leben -- of New Testament CHURCH LIFE and circumstance and situation and AUTHORITY constituting <<it>>, unambiguously does <<say when, where, what time, etc.>>
It does <<say when, where, what time, etc.>> the New Testament Church naturally, spontaneously and, transformed and reformed and NEWLY INSTITUTED BY CHRIST WITH HIS RESURRECTION as Church of CHRIST, would, and were obliged to <<assembl(e) yourselves together>>.
There was no substitute ever for the DAY JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD ON : Which was and had to be : "ON THE SABBATH, on the Sabbath in fullness, in the very broad daylight OF THE SABBATH DAY mid-afternoon the Sabbath inclining towards [the start] of the First Day of the week." Matthew 28:1.

If you want to tear Matthew 28:1 out of your Bible, you must, first, tear out all mention of the Sabbath before it. It will have to be all mention of the Sabbath in the GOSPELS as well, don't forget!

Then will you have peace of mind, dear DHK. Not before.

Meanwhile … “Let no one judge or condemn you with regard to your SABBATHS’ FEAST-OF-CHRIST” ASSEMBLING TOGETHER, “CHRIST being the ESSENCE of Sabbaths' Feast”. And while Christ is “the Nourishment ministered" and the CHURCH is "the Body of Christ’s Own holding to the Head (which is Christ)", it is "GROWING WITH THE GROWTH OF GOD”.

 

[OldRegular]

Are you asking for evidence of the Protestant Reformation and the origin of the Methodist and Lutheran churches??

Originally Posted by BobRyan
1. Hint the Lutherans came out of the Catholic Church.

Methodists came out of the Anglican Church which came out of the Catholic Church. How long will you blame the Catholics for every idea that Methodists have??

I am asking for evidence that I blame the Roman Catholics for every idea the Methodists have. Sp put up or retract your accusation!