are Altar calls even biblical?

[Oldtimer]

I am a full supporter of SS!


The best way to learn is to teach!
Did Jesus forbid us to separate people?
Did Jesus command us not to separate children?

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things" I Cor 13:11

Timely post from my standpoint. I've been asked to sub this Sunday for our teacher who has to be away this weekend. There shouldn't be any need to explain the difference between sitting in a class and standing before one, in terms of study required.

Another point that you didn't mention is the responsibility that each of us carries to help brothers and sisters grow in maturity in the word, the Word. Putting that responsibility solely upon the pastor's shoulders is shirking our own responsbilities, IMO. No, not everyone can teach, just as everyone can't stand in a pulpit and preach a semon. God doesn't call them to do so.

However, when God puts us in a teaching position, we are supposed to do it, just as Moses did, despite protests about his limitations.

I'm not a teacher. I'm a basket case of nerves when I have to stand before people and speak. The words, that usually flow easily from a keyboard, often stumble and falter when I speak. Compound that with the realization that some in this class probably have forgotten far more than I'll ever know about the Bible.

Also realize that God has a purpose for putting me in this position Sunday. The why I may never know. It may simply be giving an opportunity to assume the responsibility, in us all, to help brothers and sisters grow. Not only for the help that I can give. Perhaps, it's actually an opportunity for others in the class to help me when I falter.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Taken from a PB Q&A

Bible study is greatly to be commended, and there are definite benefits to studying and discussing scriptures with other Christians; however, scriptural example dictates that such activitiesshould be conducted in contexts other than formal church worship. There is nothing in scriptures to indicate that worshippers, either in the church or in the law, were ever segregated by knowledge, age, sex, marital status, or any other criterion. Instead, all worshipped in a common assembly.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Timely post from my standpoint. I've been asked to sub this Sunday for our teacher who has to be away this weekend. There shouldn't be any need to explain the difference between sitting in a class and standing before one, in terms of study required.

Another point that you didn't mention is the responsibility that each of us carries to help brothers and sisters grow in maturity in the word, the Word. Putting that responsibility solely upon the pastor's shoulders is shirking our own responsbilities, IMO. No, not everyone can teach, just as everyone can't stand in a pulpit and preach a semon. God doesn't call them to do so.

However, when God puts us in a teaching position, we are supposed to do it, just as Moses did, despite protests about his limitations.

I'm not a teacher. I'm a basket case of nerves when I have to stand before people and speak. The words, that usually flow easily from a keyboard, often stumble and falter when I speak. Compound that with the realization that some in this class probably have forgotten far more than I'll ever know about the Bible.

Also realize that God has a purpose for putting me in this position Sunday. The why I may never know. It may simply be giving an opportunity to assume the responsibility, in us all, to help brothers and sisters grow. Not only for the help that I can give. Perhaps, it's actually an opportunity for others in the class to help me when I falter.

Good for you... however I have gone to SS classes in the past with teachers who provided incorrect information that I wrongly assumed was gospel. The guy over time taught baloney that I'm sure messed up peoples heads. It took me time to expose it as false but I did cause I diligently study (by myself or with a ordained legitimate Pastor) .....so bottom line, I will never do that again.

I also watch doctrine & the presentation given to that. If I listened to teachers I would be walking around believing I put my dead infant in hell. Bottom line, no thanks. Been there & done that.

 

[SovereignMercy]

Can a calvinist br really treated "fairly' by those who think its unbiblical doctrineto hold though?

Reverend Mitchell's theological forefathers persecuted Christ and the apostles. Should we expect any less? I think not. At least his forefathers would leave.

When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?" But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

God's children give Him all of the glory.

 

[SovereignMercy]

Shouldn't it be the pastor that teaches & if so then why shouldn't he be teaching everyone. Did Jesus ever seperate people?

Why on earth should these people follow Jesus example here? They don't believe what He teaches, but like to use His name. If he were honest they would call themselves "Wesleyans", "Arminians", "Stanleyites" or something similar.

For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted-you may well put up with it! But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

All forms of synergism come from Satan himself. Read the book of Galatians. Sanctification is the sovereign work of God as is justification and glorification.

 

[Revmitchell]

Reverend Mitchell's theological forefathers persecuted Christ and the apostles. Should we expect any less? I think not. At least his forefathers would leave.

Yeshua1

here is an example of the other way around.

 

[Oldtimer]

Good for you... however I have gone to SS classes in the past with teachers who provided incorrect information that I wrongly assumed was gospel. The guy over time taught baloney that I'm sure messed up peoples heads. It took me time to expose it as false but I did cause I diligently study (by myself or with a ordained legitimate Pastor) .....so bottom line, I will never do that again.

I also watch doctrine & the presentation given to that. If I listened to teachers I would be walking around believing I put my dead infant in hell. Bottom line, no thanks. Been there & done that.

Have you ever thought about this? Maybe one of the purposes that God has in your life is to correct such teachings (in a Godly manner) when it is presented?

I've sat in SS classes where there was a lot of "baloney" being served. In one, in particular, I talked to our pastor about the situation. He was aware of the problem and was taking steps to correct that wouldn't bring about an even bigger problem within the church. At that PARTICULAR time, his suggestion was to join another class. I did. That teacher is no longer standing in front of the class. And, there wasn't a ripple in the congregation as this change transpired.

Next. In my current class I've found myself sometimes "fighting" with the author's of the quarterly we use. "The Bible doesn't say that!". Being in that class gives the opportunity to either correct the text or to be corrected when I've misunderstood the author's intent. Always remembering these two verses, one from the OT and one from the NT that work together. Proverbs 2:3-6 & 2 Tim 2:15 KJB

Ever consider that as a possibility with regards to the direction God wants you to take?

 

[Tom Butler]

Anyone with any common sense would have examined the church bylaws, Constitution, and covenant before even contemplating walking to the altar for membership.

SN, you may remember when we drafted our first by-laws for our church. One of the provisions was a procedure by which anyone who asked for membership (by profession of faith or letter of transfer) was given a copy of the by-laws.

Later in the week, a delegation (2 or 3 people) visited their home and basically asked them a couple of questions.

"Do you agree with the church's doctrinal position and practices" In other words, can you live with our rules and beliefs. If the answer was Yes, they were presented tot he church for a vote the following Sunday. If they said No, the process stopped right there, and the delegation reported back to the church.

Unfortunately, a number of our own members didn't like the idea of a "screening committee," and eventually the practice was dropped.

I still like the idea, and maybe some day there'll be an opportunity to re-instate it.

 

[Salty]

... (by myself or with a ordained legitimate Pastor) .....

Exactly what is a legitimate ordained pastor?
and while we are at it, where does the Bible require a man to even be ordained?

Yea well....practice on somebody else.

Am I the only one that doesn't understand your ridiculous comment?

 

[Revmitchell]

Am I the only one that doesn't understand your ridiculous comment?

Nope..............................

 

[Yeshua1]

SN, you may remember when we drafted our first by-laws for our church. One of the provisions was a procedure by which anyone who asked for membership (by profession of faith or letter of transfer) was given a copy of the by-laws.

Later in the week, a delegation (2 or 3 people) visited their home and basically asked them a couple of questions.

"Do you agree with the church's doctrinal position and practices" In other words, can you live with our rules and beliefs. If the answer was Yes, they were presented tot he church for a vote the following Sunday. If they said No, the process stopped right there, and the delegation reported back to the church.

Unfortunately, a number of our own members didn't like the idea of a "screening committee," and eventually the practice was dropped.

I still like the idea, and maybe some day there'll be an opportunity to re-instate it.

We are more "broad minded' than some here on the board as regards to what is a baptist theology to adhere to in order to be in membership, but we will not have as members any who refuse to acknowledge at least our 'broad' statement of beliefs!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Better yet.....forget a lay teacher.....only use an ordained Pastor. That should cut down on most errors but not all. Like I said, I have a Pastor who is consciousness & bible studied. I can contact him with any questions or conserns....in fact I have two that Ive even tested that have given me permission to contact them & they are good....real good.

And if they provide Gospel exposition, its primarily done in-front of a whole congregation, not partitioned & segregated. All then have the opportunity to learn. If you heard the other PB guy from Chattanooga, Tennessee on another post.....the entire church goes (kids, families, men ...the whole enchilada) to Wednesday service & stayed for at least 2 hours learning & growing in the gospel (he made commentary that nobody was watching the time)..

On another note, when you go to churches with different gospel interpretations, it could be used as a mechanism to indoctrinate. Here are two examples I was involved in (1.) now I'm convinced through my own study that DoG are scriptural. The closest Baptist Church is now General Baptist & up the road from me. Every Saturday, I'm sitting with men in a church basement, (but not before I tell the Pastor that I'm a DoG believer....his response is ....I dont care) Well apparently he did because he attempted to change my theological beliefs in those bible study classes. Since I also had made several suggestions to him privately about altering & making revisions to things in the church, this pastor publically made a comment to a group meeting that Ive got all these ideas...that was a snotty comment BTW.

2nd example.....and Ive commented earlier. A Non-Denominational Pastor is big on New Covenant Theology....I mean really big on it. He invites me to join the church....but here you go. You must go to 13 week course AFTER joining. I view that as a form of indoctrination. Now if it was done prior to, yes ok I would attend the classes to see if he had a point...perhaps I could adjust. But I will tell you at 56 YO, I did not just fall off a turnup truck. So what your supposed to do is visit the church, have coffee with the Pastor, join up & then get brainwashed. Again I say....Ah, No, No, No.

When I told the guy (Pastor) my concerns, I never heard from again. I was honest with him.....it was apparently his choice to cut off the conversation. Right!

See, I'm not easy! I don't believe in Easy Believing, I believe in working the community & they apparently don't. Its, 'you come to the Church on Sunday & we will make it all feel Good.' Well, "Shut the Front Door," you guys display to me your out there in the field working the community.....I can go to the Quick Check & buy my own bagel & coffee, thanks for offering. :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Taken from a PB Q&A

Bible study is greatly to be commended, and there are definite benefits to studying and discussing scriptures with other Christians; however, scriptural example dictates that such activities should be conducted in contexts other than formal church worship. There is nothing in scriptures to indicate that worshippers, either in the church or in the law, were ever segregated by knowledge, age, sex, marital status, or any other criterion. Instead, all worshiped in a common assembly.

Fixed some spelling errors

 

[Yeshua1]

Fixed some spelling errors

Do you teach in cell groups then that meet outside church building?

 

[Amy.G]

EWF, what do you do with this scripture?


Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,.....


The church is not just the pastor and the members. If your church has no teachers then it is not a biblical model.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF, what do you do with this scripture?


Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,.....


The church is not just the pastor and the members. If your church has no teachers then it is not a biblical model.

My pastor is my teacher

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do you teach in cell groups then that meet outside church building?

I believe my pastor does

 

[Amy.G]

My pastor is my teacher

The verse says pastors and teachers. Two different ministries.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The verse says pastors and teachers. Two different ministries.

Says who? Who said a Pastor cant teach?

 

[Yeshua1]

My pastor is my teacher

God gives BOTH pastors and teachers though to the body...

So you could be the leasder of a cell group, and be teaching from the bible, as there is no prohibition against others besides the pastor taking the bible and teaching it to others!