are Altar calls even biblical?

[Yeshua1]

Says who? Who said a Pastor cant teach?

they BOTH do teach, as the greek here seems to indicate that the pstor was also have the gift to teach, which makes sense, as he is called to expound on the bible, and to apply it to daily life!

so a pastor will also teach, not all teachers though also called to pastor!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

God gives BOTH pastors and teachers though to the body...

So you could be the leasder of a cell group, and be teaching from the bible, as there is no prohibition against others besides the pastor taking the bible and teaching it to others!

I personally don't know if there is or isn't....I was just giving you my own spin & also a few experiences. Like at one church, supposedly Baptistic, the "TEACHER" was so ignorant to scripture (however he was a major money giver to the church) that he had us in SS class & was teaching (if you could call it that) from RC Catechism. I'm surprised we didn't go & join St. Lawrence RCC down the block after that. In fact LOL, we actually went to a St. Larry's service ....for whatever justification, I cant recall.

Fascinating after all these bad experiences, that you'd even attempt to convince me otherwise.:BangHead:

 

[Amy.G]

Says who? Who said a Pastor cant teach?

No one said that. But there are pastors AND there are teachers. A pastor cannot do everything.
Yes, there can be bad teachers. There can be bad pastors also. Not all pastors are good teachers. God set up these two ministries in the church for a reason. Just because we may have had bad experiences with teachers does not mean that we throw out the Bible model for a sound church with ALL of it's offices. Instead we keep the model and get rid of the bad teacher.

 

[Salty]

Exactly what is a legitimate ordained pastor?
and while we are at it, where does the Bible require a man to even be ordained?

Am I the only one that doesn't understand your ridiculous comment?

EWF,
Rev Mitchell and I understand if you refuse my question.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We believe that "The Sunday School" is another of man's inventions which is generally used as a "soul-saving" agency But it must be emphasized that Jesus the Saviour is the only soul winner and that man never has been able to do that work (Heb. 8 :11)

Hebrews 8:11

New King James Version (NKJV)

11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF,
Rev Mitchell and I understand if you refuse my question.

Now why would I refuse to answer ....They have to go through a process of proving their knowledge of Scripture & ability to present it. Ive had dialogged with a ORB Pastor about that subject & am satisfied with his credentials. If you want me to delineate, I cant....I wasnt taking notes. Call them up yourself & inquire.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No one said that. But there are pastors AND there are teachers. A pastor cannot do everything.
Yes, there can be bad teachers. There can be bad pastors also. Not all pastors are good teachers. God set up these two ministries in the church for a reason. Just because we may have had bad experiences with teachers does not mean that we throw out the Bible model for a sound church with ALL of it's offices. Instead we keep the model and get rid of the bad teacher.

I dont see what the big problem is.....I can pick up a phone every day or write my pastor with questions & he will get back to me generally w/i 24-48 hrs. & if he cant respond I can call other pastors I have trust in. My study begins every day with a sincere prayer to the HS to guide & enlighten so Im never without some help (whether Human and/or spiritual).

 

[Amy.G]

We believe that "The Sunday School" is another of man's inventions which is generally used as a "soul-saving" agency But it must be emphasized that Jesus the Saviour is the only soul winner and that man never has been able to do that work (Heb. 8 :11)

Hebrews 8:11

New King James Version (NKJV)

11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

Then you believe wrong. SS is a discipleship tool to equip the saints with knowledge of God's word. It's not an evangelism tool.

Your scripture has nothing to do with teachers in the church and is taken out of context.

 

[Amy.G]

I dont see what the big problem is.....I can pick up a phone every day or write my pastor with questions & he will get back to me generally w/i 24-48 hrs. & if he cant respond I can call other pastors I have trust in. My study begins every day with a sincere prayer to the HS to guide & enlighten so Im never without some help (whether Human and/or spiritual).

You're free to do whatever you want, but my problem with your view is that you deny the clear Biblical teaching of teachers in the church.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No one said that. But there are pastors AND there are teachers. A pastor cannot do everything.
Yes, there can be bad teachers. There can be bad pastors also. Not all pastors are good teachers. God set up these two ministries in the church for a reason. Just because we may have had bad experiences with teachers does not mean that we throw out the Bible model for a sound church with ALL of it's offices. Instead we keep the model and get rid of the bad teacher.

And this is why I dont have much faith in most of these churches around here. This is why I am decerning. We dont have churches on every block so the ones that do exist, exist without much competition. So if you dont agree or you find out some bad stewing, you might have to allow it to happen or get out. Id prefer to stay away from the crud in favor of taking an active roll in bringing Christ to the community. The churches here do not do that.....they wait for you to come to them.....then they indoctrinate you. you should see July & August around.....they dunk anyone & everyone who wants to be baptized if for no other reason but then to show an increased headcount on the rolls. I have even heard one mother ask a pastor, "Jeannie was disappointed, she thought that when she came out of the baptism waters that her life would be changed"....what do I tell her? This dunderhead pastor just smiles & shrugs. Never giving an answer. NEVER that you must be born again....nope, he got his inflated number & he gets to keep his job.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You're free to do whatever you want, but my problem with your view is that you deny the clear Biblical teaching of teachers in the church.

LOL, No I dont....I simply believe that the Pastor should be the teacher also. So how do you get around Hebrews 8:11? & if you want to stand by the comment, "your wrong" ....WELL, I reject that analysis. :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

No I dont....I simply believe that the Pastor should be the teacher also. So how do you get around Hebrews 8:11? & if you want to stand by the comment, "your wrong" ....WELL, I reject that analysis. :laugh:

Yes, pastors also teach, but the Bible speaks of some as teachers not pastors.

I don't get around Heb 8:11. It is not speaking of teachers in the church. It is speaking of the new dispensation of grace in which the commandments of God are revealed in the heart not just in the outward requirements of the Law.

 

[Salty]

Ive had dialogged with a ORB Pastor about that subject & am satisfied with his credentials. If you want me to delineate, I cant....I wasnt taking notes. Call them up yourself & inquire.

First, it appears your pastor is an instructor, not a teacher.

Second, .... OH WELL....

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, pastors also teach, but the Bible speaks of some as teachers not pastors.

I don't get around Heb 8:11. It is not speaking of teachers in the church. It is speaking of the new dispensation of grace in which the commandments of God are revealed in the heart not just in the outward requirements of the Law.

Well I disagree with your interpetion. If Im being fed, whats your problem with it. I rely 1st on the Holy Spirit then a pastor who is also in the roll of teacher. I have learned more in that mode of operation then I ever did the other way. It involves every day study not just once a week at 930AM in a church.....with people who may or may not be completely knowledgeable or my have their own little agenda. Sorry, but thats what I believe & Im standing by it. Plus its also my spiritual responsibility to transfer that knowledge to my family (not an easy task I can tell you) ....but my wife understands.

While she wont go to churches around here....she approves of my integrating with the Old School Types & has even promised to go with me to a Old School church if we move to Florida. Thats the rub.....I absolutely love these guys & believe in them, so if I move there I get a real home church....but if I stay in New Jersey I get crapo apostate or dead churches.....plus highest taxes in the country, high living expenses etc. Gods testing me, sure enough.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

First, it appears your pastor is an instructor, not a teacher.

Second, .... OH WELL....

Why does he have to teach me when we have discussed the matter & he sees we are going in the right direction?

Salty, aren't you the SBC representative or a representative for NJ? Didnt you tell me your too old to come here and assess the situation when Jerome asked you to review it?

 

[Iconoclast]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty View Post

Am I the only one that doesn't understand your ridiculous comment?
Nope..............................

Nope..............................

:thumbs::wavey::thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:thumbs::wavey::thumbs:

And Nope generally implys Dope.:laugh:

Tony, at least have the good sense to stay away from commenting when Im involved

 

[Iconoclast]

And Nope generally implys Dope.:laugh:

Tony, at least have the good sense to stay away from commenting when Im involved

This is a public forum.You have posted in public.
So I can comment on anything here. I agreed with salty and rm ,and Amyg and Annsni,and others....

While we have been able to agree on several things and seemed to be friendly,[as i have seen you speak in support of my posts many times] .....
recently you have had a change of mind and opinion, because I do not agree with you on some issues. You are a big boy...you can do and post what you want.

While you are not in a good situation living where you are,others have given you a way out....bible study, build up a group, work into other churches, you are now posting unbiblical ideas that others have noticed as well. You can post what you want.....and we can post what we want.That is how it works. If you cannot handle it, go into the user thing and put me on ignore. I will not speak to you in PM.....everything will be open so it cannot be twisted.

 

[Revmitchell]

While we have been able to agree on several things and seemed to be friendly,[as i have seen you speak in support of my posts many times] .....
recently you have had a change of mind and opinion, because I do not agree with you on some issues.

I have experienced the same thing.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This is a public forum.You have posted in public.
So I can comment on anything here. I agreed with salty and rm ,and Amyg and Annsni,and others....

While we have been able to agree on several things and seemed to be friendly,[as i have seen you speak in support of my posts many times] .....
recently you have had a change of mind and opinion, because I do not agree with you on some issues. You are a big boy...you can do and post what you want.

While you are not in a good situation living where you are,others have given you a way out....bible study, build up a group, work into other churches, you are now posting unbiblical ideas that others have noticed as well. You can post what you want.....and we can post what we want.That is how it works. If you cannot handle it, go into the user thing and put me on ignore. I will not speak to you in PM.....everything will be open so it cannot be twisted.

DONE.....:tongue3: