Are angels humans from the future?

[percho]

Me thinks we will have a house like the angels, that is unable to die any more yet I believe we will be better than the angels for we will be like the risen Christ.

What was the name he, Jesus the Christ obtained by inheritance and just when did he obtain that name? Exactly when did he, Jesus the Christ inherit that name?

BTW I can give a lot of scripture.

Start with Luke 20:36

 

[Amy.G]

So what are you saying - you don't think I count as a theologian?

Precisely! :laugh:

I have mentioned previously in the thread a few of several passages from the Bible that were the impetus for this idea of mine. Doesn't mean I'm right.

We shouldn't approach the bible with our own "ideas". The bible is our teacher. We need to study and let God speak to us.

For instance, I can have an idea that the moon is made from green cheese and try to see it in the bible, but obviously it's not.
Do a word search on angels and see what the bible says. If there is no clear mention of them being "human", which there isn't, then you need to trash that "idea" immediately.

 

[preacher4truth]

So what are you saying - you don't think I count as a theologian?

Pretty much, yes. :thumbsup:

Yes in my life I have perused orthodox comment regarding the nature of angels. Haven't seen anyone put forth the idea I'm presenting here. I have mentioned previously in the thread a few of several passages from the Bible that were the impetus for this idea of mine. Doesn't mean I'm right.

We know. :smilewinkgrin:

Don't anyone immediately disregard all future commentary of mine on other subjects.

Ok...we...uh...won't.... :wavey:



:type:

 

[Mark_13]

Preacher4Truth:

I find that an arrogant and snide reply by you, "brother". What is your problem? Do you go into paroxysms if anyone even tentatively suggests, with explanation, some idea that is not immediately consistent with your preconceived idea of orthodoxy? And then when you have them pegged, you feel you have free reign to treat them with derision? You have not added anything to this discussion.

 

[Mark_13]

Preacher4Truth---->:tonofbricks:

 

[preacher4truth]

Preacher4Truth:

I find that an arrogant and snide reply by you, "brother". What is your problem? Do you go into paroxysms if anyone even tentatively suggests, with explanation, some idea that is not immediately consistent with your preconceived idea of orthodoxy? And then when you have them pegged, you feel you have free reign to treat them with derision? You have not added anything to this discussion.

Lighten up Francis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs


I'm just giving you a hard time. No need to put brother in "". I get the implication. :love2:

Just pretend we're all sittin' around, watchin' the game, and I'm being sarcastic and we're all laughing. Don't take it so serious. I'll in the mean time forgive you for your implied disregard form me being saved. And laugh about it. ---------------> :laugh:

Cool?

 

[preacher4truth]

Mark_13 ------------> :flower:

 

[Mark_13]

I'm watching the SB now - sorry I couldn't get to everyone's comments.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Here's where I'm still undecided on the issue: Every time angels appear in scripture, its always very specific about them appearing as men - specifically young men.

Nope, not always:

Isaiah 6:1-2
"In the year of King Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew."

 

[Skandelon]

Preacher4Truth:

I find that an arrogant and snide reply by you, "brother". What is your problem? Do you go into paroxysms if anyone even tentatively suggests, with explanation, some idea that is not immediately consistent with your preconceived idea of orthodoxy? And then when you have them pegged, you feel you have free reign to treat them with derision? You have not added anything to this discussion.

Even if this is true its probably better to handle it in a PM...

 

[Don]

Okay, the serious response (I'm watching the SB, too): Mark, you got several replies about how angels were created to be angels; yet you glossed over those responses and chose to focus on "created."

You can't stop there; you *have* to consider the rest of the sentence: "to be angels."

One poster has provided several scriptural references from Jude; don't stop with your study of Hebrews 1 and 2, but consider all scripture. There's nothing in scripture to support your idea that angels are resurrected Christians.

I applaud your courage to present such a topic for study. It's not easy coming to these public boards and risk ridicule.

 

[preacher4truth]

What?! I can't imagine that being true. Either way, probably better to handle it in a PM...

He's probably a big boy in public, and unlike you can say what he needs to in public forum without resorting to such childish games in PM. Nomesane?

 

[preacher4truth]

Okay, the serious response (I'm watching the SB, too): Mark, you got several replies about how angels were created to be angels; yet you glossed over those responses and chose to focus on "created."

I applaud your courage to present such a topic for study. It's not easy coming to these public boards and risk ridicule.

I agree with your first statement. They were created. As angels.

I seriously can't applaud a departure from sound doctrine for the sake of a "maverick" spirit, or anything akin to such.

Sound doctrine for me. I know that's just not popular these days.

 

[freeatlast]

So, humans were not created??? (And don't serve a purpose?)

Here's Scarlett's O's comment:

"Angels are angels. Humans are humans. Both created for distinct purposes. Both created differently."

So the fact that angels are created doesn't seem to establish anything on the question one way or the other.

(Incidentally, I'm just considering the evidence anyone puts forward on its face. I have not made a final assessment of Hebrews 1-2 which seems to be the definitive statement on the subject.)



Its not saying in that passage that only angels are created. Humans are created too (by some means or another but by God ultimately). In fact the passage seems to be dictating that everything in all creation praise the Lord - certainly that would include humans, right? (Not seeing how you ever saw this passage as being conclusive on the subject).

Actually though, who are the "hosts" the passage mentions. You seem to be assuming they are just a repeat reference to angels, and if that is the case it lends further credence to the idea that angels are humans, in that the passage would be mentioning everyting in creation but humans should praise the Lord. Humans are not instructed to praise the Lord when even the sun and the moon are?

But if the hosts are not the angels but another group (a possibility I guess) it could mean humans, but then why are angels mentioned ahead of humans (as if human are down the pecking scale in creation). Nevertheless, "hosts" may mean humans here - not sure. A commentary I picked up says hosts there may mean stars (in addition to angels) - plausible in that it mentions the sun and the moon right afterwards. But in Daniel it says that those who lead many to righteousness will shine like stars for ever and ever.


Remember the supposition being put forward (what is the term for that - escapes me) is that angels are resurrected Christians who are able to travel through time. Thus angels being present anywhere in the O.T. does not contradict my thesis.

It has been my experience that once someone has made up their mind on a matter as you seem to have done no amount of anything will change it including the word of God.

 

[quantumfaith]

Preacher4Truth:

I find that an arrogant and snide reply by you, "brother". What is your problem? Do you go into paroxysms if anyone even tentatively suggests, with explanation, some idea that is not immediately consistent with your preconceived idea of orthodoxy? And then when you have them pegged, you feel you have free reign to treat them with derision? You have not added anything to this discussion.

:applause::applause::applause:

 

[Mark_13]

Mark, here's an article that might help you.

http://carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/what-are-angels

Thanks I appreciate it amy, though I could have googled angels - unless the link you provided specifically addresses the question from the OP (which I highly doubt) I don't know what use it will be to me.

Another verse you provided is very enigmatic to me:

(Heb 13:2) Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

Its weird that you could have an an interaction with someone over an extended length of time, and they would give every indication of being an actual flesh and blood human being, but were in fact an angel. I guess they must be able to assume arbitrary form. If we are greater than angels after the resurrection, then presumably we could do this as well.

Its occurred to me in the past though that possibly its actually being implied that when you show hospitality to a fellow believer you are doing it to someone who will one day be an angel.

 

[Mark_13]

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation oikētērion,
he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - Jude 6

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God,
an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house oikētērion which is from heaven: - 2 Cor 5:1-2

That which the rebellious angels "gave up" is what the believers in Christ will "receive", that is, the oikētērion.


the sons of God [bene ha Elohim] saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. - Gen 6:2
the sons of God [bene ha Elohim] came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them - Gen 6:4

For if God spared not the angels that sinned [bene ha Elohim], but cast them down to Tartarus, and delivered them into
chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; - 2 Pet 2:4

Interesting post there.

 

[Amy.G]

Thanks I appreciate amy, though I could have googled angels - unless the link you provided specifically addresses the question from the OP (which I highly doubt) I don't know what use it will be to me.

The article is titled, What are angels?

 

[Mark_13]

Precisely! :laugh:


We shouldn't approach the bible with our own "ideas". The bible is our teacher. We need to study and let God speak to us.

For instance, I can have an idea that the moon is made from green cheese and try to see it in the bible, but obviously it's not.
Do a word search on angels and see what the bible says. If there is no clear mention of them being "human", which there isn't, then you need to trash that "idea" immediately.

Amy, I did provide several verses on the first page - where Gabriel is called a man in Daniel, where Christ says after the resurrection we will be "like" the angels, where in Revelation, John is about to worship an angel, and the angel tells him to not do that because he (the angel) is a fellow servant of Jesus Christ. There are many other verses I could list.

You do not need to be threatened by an idea put forward by someone and then belittle it as a defensive reaction. You could have just followed the directive in the OP and list verses that you felt were a clear refutation of it. Certain individuals have in fact complied with that directive and have been acknowledged by me - ScarlettO's verse from I Peter is a strong argument against my idea. Your "green cheese" remark is not.

 

[Mark_13]

Okay, the serious response (I'm watching the SB, too): Mark, you got several replies about how angels were created to be angels; yet you glossed over those responses and chose to focus on "created."

You can't stop there; you *have* to consider the rest of the sentence: "to be angels."
.

Let me walk you through this:

Freeatlast's opening argument to me in #8:

No angels are not resurrected humans. They are beings that God has created to serve a purpose. The scripture says they were created.

Psalm 148:2-5
Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens.
Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

So his crucial distinguishing factor, between humans and angels, is that he says angels were created.

And I simply pointed out to him that even ScarlettO in her post described humans as being created.

As to your's and I guess ScarlettO's assertion that Angel's were created to be angels that's just vacuous assertion. What does it mean to be created to be an angel. What are humans created for - to be humans? That whole line of discourse has no bearing on anything.

freeatlast's proof text from Psalm 148 above clearly is indicating that everything that God created should praise him. freeatlast thinks though only angels are in reference there and that it means that angels but not humans were created.

Sorry to have to walk through again a response I already made in #12.