Are angels humans from the future?

[preacher4truth]

So his crucial distinguishing factor, between humans and angels, is that he says angels were created.

And I simply pointed out to him that even ScarlettO in her post described humans as being created.

What were angels created as? Angels maybe?

 

[Amy.G]

You do not need to be threatened by an idea put forward by someone and then belittle it as a defensive reaction. You could have just followed the directive in the OP and list verses that you felt were a clear refutation of it.

I don't feel threatened. I have tougher skin that that after 5 years on this board.

I did post scripture. Scripture doesn't imply any way, shape or form that angels are dead humans. The responsibility is yours to prove it does.

 

[Mark_13]

I don't feel threatened. I have tougher skin that that after 5 years on this board.

I did post scripture. Scripture doesn't imply any way, shape or form that angels are dead humans. The responsibility is yours to prove it does.

Your construction there "angels are dead humans" is an irreverent and innacurate characterization of what I said.

I'm not trying to convert anybody- that's why I solicited substantive feedback in the OP, not knee-jerk belittling unsubstantive drivel which is all you're evidently capable of. Glad you're not thin-skinned.

 

[Jerome]

Sounds like Mormonism:

"the office which is assigned to the saints in the salvation of their fellow men, does not consist alone in their going forth during the days of their flesh to preach, and testify to their fellow men of the things of God; but also after they leave this world to enjoy another state of being, to manifest themselves to their brethren, who are in the flesh, and who have the testimony of Jesus, and to administer unto them, and to make them acquainted with those things which pertain to the kingdom of God, and to be ministering spirits unto them who are the heirs of salvation. This ministration of the angels or messengers, who were once in the flesh, is to those who are heirs of salvation, and who are approved of in the sight of God" —Sidney Rigdon, Reformed Baptist turned Mormon church spokesman

http://www.centerplace.org/history/ma/v1n11.htm

 

[Mark_13]

What were angels created as? Angels maybe?

Where does it say angels were created as angels?

 

[Amy.G]

Your construction there "angels are dead humans" is an irreverent and innacurate characterization of what I said.

I'm not trying to convert anybody- that's why I solicited substantive feedback in the OP, not knee-jerk belittling unsubstantive drivel which is all you're evidently capable of. Glad you're not thin-skinned.

Whatever. You've made up your mind.

 

[Mark_13]

Sounds like Mormonism:

"the office which is assigned to the saints in the salvation of their fellow men, does not consist alone in their going forth during the days of their flesh to preach, and testify to their fellow men of the things of God; but also after they leave this world to enjoy another state of being, to manifest themselves to their brethren, who are in the flesh, and who have the testimony of Jesus, and to administer unto them, and to make them acquainted with those things which pertain to the kingdom of God, and to be ministering spirits unto them who are the heirs of salvation. This ministration of the angels or messengers, who were once in the flesh, is to those who are heirs of salvation, and who are approved of in the sight of God" —Sidney Rigdon, Reformed Baptist turned Mormon church spokesman

http://www.centerplace.org/history/ma/v1n11.htm

Interesting. First of all I'm not a Mormon, never heard of this about them, and as inclined as any Baptist to say if Mormon's came up with it, its probably not true. Otoh, Shooting the messenger is an informal logical fallacy, so the question should be where in scripture did Mormon's get this from - maybe I should look into it for a bit.

 

[preacher4truth]

Where does it say angels were created as angels?

Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee. Nehemiah 9:6

Right there.

 

[Don]

I agree with your first statement. They were created. As angels.

I seriously can't applaud a departure from sound doctrine for the sake of a "maverick" spirit, or anything akin to such.

Sound doctrine for me. I know that's just not popular these days.

Dude, you are seriously messed up.

I wasn't applauding his doctrine. I was applauding his courage in bringing it here to test it. It would have been much easier for him to simply start a web site espousing those views.

You seriously have a mean spirit about you.

 

[preacher4truth]

Dude, you are seriously messed up.

I wasn't applauding his doctrine. I was applauding his courage in bringing it here to test it. It would have been much easier for him to simply start a web site espousing those views.

You seriously have a mean spirit about you.

OK. That's your opinion, and what you needed to say about another person.

As for me, sticking to sound doctrine is what I will always do. I can't applaud this other path. If all that makes me to you, mean spirited, messed up, or other pejoratives, sobeit.

This is what happens when one makes a stand for sound truth. I'll stand with what I've said.

God bless you Don.

In addition, I wouldn't encourage starting a website espousing non-biblical views.

 

[Don]

Let me walk you through this:

Freeatlast's opening argument to me in #8:

No angels are not resurrected humans. They are beings that God has created to serve a purpose. The scripture says they were created.

Psalm 148:2-5
Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens.
Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

So his crucial distinguishing factor, between humans and angels, is that he says angels were created.

And I simply pointed out to him that even ScarlettO in her post described humans as being created.

As to your's and I guess ScarlettO's assertion that Angel's were created to be angels that's just vacuous assertion. What does it mean to be created to be an angel. What are humans created for - to be humans? That whole line of discourse has no bearing on anything.

freeatlast's proof text from Psalm 148 above clearly is indicating that everything that God created should praise him. freeatlast thinks though only angels are in reference there and that it means that angels but not humans were created.

Sorry to have to walk through again a response I already made in #12.

Not talking about Free's post; so I didn't read your response to him. Sorry about that. Was referring more to Scarlett and BeamMeUp's posts.

Let me walk you through this: God created the heavens and the earth. They are what they are.

God created the lion and the lamb. They are what they are.

God created men and angels; yet, you somehow believe they're something other than what they are.

Seems to me Hebrews 1:14 pretty much defines angels. And 2:16 pretty much identifies the difference between angels and men.

 

[Iconoclast]

In Hebrews we get an explanation of psalm 8.....

man apart from Christ...lower than angels....In Christ we shall judge angels

1 Corinthians 6

1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

resurrected humans/angels...time travel.....no

.

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 

[preacher4truth]

Perhaps instead of telling another how we feel about them, perhaps address the sound doctrine employed, and rather make a stand for sound teaching?

Telling others how we feel about them is only revealing about ourselves.

Stick to doctrine instead, and leave off the personal remarks.

Applauding a 'maverick' spirit lending toward errant theology, or, encouraging a website start espousing a departure from sound doctrine is an imprudent venture.

 

[Mark_13]

Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee. Nehemiah 9:6

Right there.

Its talking about stars there - where it says hosts. Some translations even say starry hosts. The fact that it talks about the sea right after the heavens should clue you in on that.

Even if it did say angels - the question was, were angels always angels from the time they were created, so it wouldn't answer that.

Thought I'd give you a hand so the following occurred to me:

(Ezek 28:12-14) "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.

But what's weird is, it talking about the King of Tyre but as if talking about Satan the anointed cherub. So there is some strange connection between angels and humans evidently that the scripture doesn't feel obliged to spell out.

 

[Don]

....Applauding a 'maverick' spirit lending toward errant theology, or, encouraging a website start espousing a departure from sound doctrine is an imprudent venture.

Sorry, can't let that pass, because you're misrepresenting what I posted.

I'm not applauding a maverick spirit espousing a departure from sound doctrine; I'm applauding the courage it takes to be told you're wrong about something. You'll notice that twice now, he's acknowledged posters who have provided scripture that directly contradicts his position; in other words, he's open to sound doctrine. The question is: Are you gonna provide it to him? Or let him continue in his "errant theology"?

Second, I didn't "encourage a website start." I mentioned that he brought his questions here, when he could have done like so many, many others already have, and simply started a website espousing his thoughts. Instead, he's asking you, and the rest of us, to tell us what scripture really says about the subject.

You can be petty about this. Or you can follow your own advice, and actually search out scripture with this guy, and teach him what scripture says.

Done with you. Back to the original point of this thread.

 

[preacher4truth]

Its talking about stars there - where it says hosts. Some translations even say starry hosts. The fact that it talks about the sea right after the heavens should clue you in on that.

Even if it did say angels - the question was, were angels always angels from the time they were created, so it wouldn't answer that.

Thought I'd give you a hand so the following occurred to me:

(Ezek 28:12-14) "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.

But what's weird is, it talking about the King of Tyre but as if talking about Satan the anointed cherub. So there is some strange connection between angels and humans evidently that the scripture doesn't feel obliged to spell out.

So stars are worshipping God?

and the host of heaven worshipped thee; not the sun, moon, and stars, only in their way, Psa_148:2 but the angels chiefly, Heb_1:6. - John Gill

and:

The angels, who are so called, as 1Ki_22:19 Luk_2:13, who do worship God truly and properly. And it is most usual and reasonable to understand all words properly, where there is no need of a figurative interpretation. And if this were understood of metaphorical and objective worshipping of God, there seems to be no reason to appropriate that to the host of heaven, to wit, the stars, seeing the hosts of sea and earth do in that sense worship God no less than the stars do, namely, in giving angels and men matter and occasion of worshipping and praising of God. - Matthew Poole

and:

The host of heaven worshippeth thee - i. e the angels. See 1Ki_22:19; Psa_103:21.

1 Kings 22:19, Luke 2:13 refer to "host" as angelic beings, not planets/stars. Scriptures point to these as angelic beings.

- Peace

 

[preacher4truth]

Sorry, can't let that pass, because you're misrepresenting what I posted.

I'm not applauding a maverick spirit espousing a departure from sound doctrine; I'm applauding the courage it takes to be told you're wrong about something. You'll notice that twice now, he's acknowledged posters who have provided scripture that directly contradicts his position; in other words, he's open to sound doctrine. The question is: Are you gonna provide it to him? Or let him continue in his "errant theology"?

Second, I didn't "encourage a website start." I mentioned that he brought his questions here, when he could have done like so many, many others already have, and simply started a website espousing his thoughts. Instead, he's asking you, and the rest of us, to tell us what scripture really says about the subject.

You can be petty about this. Or you can follow your own advice, and actually search out scripture with this guy, and teach him what scripture says.

Done with you. Back to the original point of this thread.

If you'd take a gander you'd see that I've provided sound doctrine to him. I've addressed him with truth. Your points stand as stated; applause for such a thing, and encouragement of starting a site with the same ideologies.

It would have been much easier for him to simply start a web site espousing those views. - Don

Now, rather than telling us your inward feelings for a person, address the actual teachings I've conveyed, and leave off the remarks. I'm not interested in your feelings for me, it's not necessary in addition to your being petty.

 

[Don]

Thought I'd give you a hand so the following occurred to me:

(Ezek 28:12-14) "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.

But what's weird is, it talking about the King of Tyre but as if talking about Satan the anointed cherub. So there is some strange connection between angels and humans evidently that the scripture doesn't feel obliged to spell out.

Seems to me this passage is not showing a connection between men and angels, but saying: Tell the king of Tyre that if I (God) have struck down my cherub, why should the king of Tyre be any different?

 

[preacher4truth]

God uses both men and angels as "messengers" and with that there can be confusion. There is though a distinction between the two.

 

[Mark_13]

iconclast -

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

That says that Abraham can't go to hell (or hades) to comfort the Rich man


3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

How does this establish that good angels are not resurrected Christians from the future. I'm just saying...