Are angels humans from the future?

[Mark_13]

preacher4truth - I didn't see further down in Nehemiah 9:6 where it talks about them bowing down. The commentary I was looking at used the NIV which says starry hosts, and so I assumed the commentary must be comfortable with that, but then they say its probably talking about angels. But even in Psalms 148 quoted by freeatlast, it talks about all sorts of seemingly inanimate things as well as animals praising God, along with men (which parenthetically has deep significance to me as it implies that man himself is fundamentally connected to all of nature and that even things like the sun and moon can praise God in some sense directly comparable to how man can.) As I said, even if Nehemiah is talking about angels it does not say they were always just angels.

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Just to briefly clarify one comment above (though not related to thread), I think Psa 148 is implying, certainly not that the sun or moon, sleet hail, and so forth have sentience, but rather they have things that they do, some of them quite complex, just as humans do their own complex things. And all these disparate elements of nature, man included, have complex behaviors that equate to praise for God - man is a part of all that - not apart from it.

 

[Mark_13]

Upon further reflection, maybe Psalms 148 does imply some distinction between angels and humans as it goes through all these disparate aspects of the creation, including angels and humans, and it never says angels and humans are connected which maybe it would if they were.

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone - I'll consider it.

 

[Iconoclast]

iconclast -

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

That says that Abraham can't go to hell (or hades) to comfort the Rich man



In luke 16 ....the rich man wanted to send someone back to his brothers...he was told....they cannot ...just read it.

3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

How does this establish that good angels are not resurrected Christians from the future. I'm just saying...

Men are going to judge angels....they are two different groups.

bodily resurrection happens on the last day....

 

[quantumfaith]

If you'd take a gander you'd see that I've provided sound doctrine to him. I've addressed him with truth. Your points stand as stated; applause for such a thing, and encouragement of starting a site with the same ideologies.



Now, rather than telling us your inward feelings for a person, address the actual teachings I've conveyed, and leave off the remarks. I'm not interested in your feelings for me, it's not necessary in addition to your being petty.

You.....citing someone else for being "petty".??????

 

[freeatlast]

Where does it say angels were created as angels?

:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:
Where does it say that the sun was created as the sun, or the moon as the moon, or dogs as dogs, or horses as horses, and on and on?

 

[Mark_13]

:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:
Where does it say that the sun was created as the sun, or the moon as the moon, or dogs as dogs, or horses as horses, and on and on?

The sun was previously a cloud of gas that compressed under the force of gravity and as a result of the increasing pressure and heat it ignited. That cloud of gas from which the sun formed was previously another star that supernovaed.

The moon was previously a part of the earth and was dislodged after earth was hit by another planet in the early solar system.

Dogs were previously wolves.

Horses were previously proto-horses.

Things tend to emerge via a process that extends over time, in which things go through different stages of being.

Whatever humans will be ultimately, after the resurrection, will not be what they were created as. They were created as normal human beings. The only question is, will what we will be ultimately be greater than angels are essentially comparable to angels. My money now is on the former, but it doesn't go without saying.

 

[freeatlast]

The sun was previously a cloud of gas that compressed under the force of gravity and as a result of the increasing pressure and heat it ignited. That cloud of gas from which the sun formed was previously another star that supernovaed.

The moon was previously a part of the earth and was dislodged after earth was hit by another planet in the early solar system.

Dogs were previously wolves.

Horses were previously proto-horses.

Things tend to emerge via a process that extends over time, in which things go through different stages of being.

Whatever humans will be ultimately, after the resurrection, will not be what they were created as. They were created as normal human beings. The only question is, will what we will be ultimately be greater than angels are essentially comparable to angels. My money now is on the former, but it doesn't go without saying.

.

Then I assume you do not believe in the creation account as given, correct? Also let me ask this. Do you believe that God is eternal and Jesus is in fact that God?

 

[Mark_13]

.

Then I assume you do not believe in the creation account as given, correct? Also let me ask this. Do you believe that God is eternal and Jesus is in fact that God?

If someone wants to start an evolution thread, maybe I'll talk about it. Its really insinuating for you to imply I need to be cross-examined in those other areas. What are you saying - that the sun, moon, dogs and horses were created "ex-nihilo".

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You're not the Spanish Inquisition - I don't need to respond to you on those matters. Jesus didn't respond either when the Pharisees demanded he admit if he was the Son of God.

 

[freeatlast]

If someone wants to start an evolution thread, maybe I'll talk about it. Its really insinuating for you to imply I need to be cross-examined in those other areas. What are you saying - that the sun, moon, dogs and horses were created "ex-nihilo".

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You're not the Spanish Inquisition - I don't need to respond to you on those matters. Jesus didn't respond either when the Pharisees demanded he admit if he was the Son of God.

Created means created not formed or put together. God created all the elements and then formed them into what we see all this done in a moment of time, over 6 literal days. So yes everything came from nothing. That includes space. There was nothing and God created everything forming it into what we see in 6 literal days. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.(Hebrews 11:3). I am trying to understand where you are coming from so let me ask this. Do you believe that God is eternal, has no beginning or end, and the Person we know as Jesus is in fact that God?

 

[preacher4truth]

:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:
Where does it say that the sun was created as the sun, or the moon as the moon, or dogs as dogs, or horses as horses, and on and on?

Great point. I gave him a sound answer, with proofs they were created as angels and in turn worship God.

Bro, I see more and more non-cals and arminians who love to go down these roads of chimerical and fantastical doctrines. I'm glad you're not one of them.

- Peace

 

[freeatlast]

Great point. I gave him a sound answer, with proofs they were created as angels and in turn worship God.

Bro, I see more and more non-cals and arminians who love to go down these roads of chimerical and fantastical doctrines. I'm glad you're not one of them.

- Peace

While error in this particular issue may not hold any serious consequences how it is derived at can and that is why I am trying to get him to answer certain questions not pertaining to this. To hold error in one area of theology or doctrine will always lead to error in other areas.

 

[preacher4truth]

If someone wants to start an evolution thread, maybe I'll talk about it. Its really insinuating for you to imply I need to be cross-examined in those other areas. What are you saying - that the sun, moon, dogs and horses were created "ex-nihilo".

-------------------
You're not the Spanish Inquisition - I don't need to respond to you on those matters. Jesus didn't respond either when the Pharisees demanded he admit if he was the Son of God.

His cross examination isn't unwarranted, it's actually valid.

Now, is freeatlast asking you to admit that you're the Son of God? Are you calling yourself the Son of God and freeatlast a Pharisee? Using your logic one could arrive at that conclusion that it is in fact what you are saying.

 

[Don]

Upon further reflection, maybe Psalms 148 does imply some distinction between angels and humans as it goes through all these disparate aspects of the creation, including angels and humans, and it never says angels and humans are connected which maybe it would if they were.

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone - I'll consider it.

Please consider it carefully. You've been shown a LOT of scripture by a lot of different people that contradicts your premise; and you haven't actually shown any scripture that supports your premise, merely tries to interpret and explain scripture.

The hardest thing any of us can do is admit we're wrong.

 

[Mark_13]

Please consider it carefully. You've been shown a LOT of scripture by a lot of different people that contradicts your premise; and you haven't actually shown any scripture that supports your premise, merely tries to interpret and explain scripture.

The hardest thing any of us can do is admit we're wrong.

Don, I do not need to be issued a stern warning by someone posing as a church father or what not. There have been a handful of passage presented in this thread that merited recognition by me as problematic for the thesis I presented and I acknowledged them. After all, I solicited them to begin with. There have been twice as many passages presented in the thread that were utterly irrelevant and I noted those as well. It is also a false statement by you that I did not put forward scripture to justify my initial position. You have quite evidently not come close to reading the entire thread.

 

[Mark_13]

In fact I put forward passages myself that were problematic for my thesis!

(Heb 2:5) For He did not subject to angels the world to come, concerning which we are speaking. [post #5]

Your sanctimonious reproving demeanor is unwarranted. Go soak your head.

 

[Flippo]

the problem

The problem is that scripture was used to show that angels were created as angels and you are still just considering it. When clear scripture is shown, instead of considering it just believe it.

I have a friend who is always looking for something new and then goes to scripture to prove it. The problem with this is you can prove a lot of heresy by taking scripture out of context. Instead, just go to the Bible prayerfully and let the Bible in context teach you.

Flippo

 

[Iconoclast]

The sun was previously a cloud of gas that compressed under the force of gravity and as a result of the increasing pressure and heat it ignited. That cloud of gas from which the sun formed was previously another star that supernovaed.

The moon was previously a part of the earth and was dislodged after earth was hit by another planet in the early solar system.

Dogs were previously wolves.

Horses were previously proto-horses.

Things tend to emerge via a process that extends over time, in which things go through different stages of being.

Whatever humans will be ultimately, after the resurrection, will not be what they were created as. They were created as normal human beings. The only question is, will what we will be ultimately be greater than angels are essentially comparable to angels. My money now is on the former, but it doesn't go without saying.

Friend,
This response is completely unbiblical and a clear denial of God's word.
If you do not believe the biblical revelation of God as creator...your unwise speculations about the nature of men and angels will be fruitless...unless you first come to grips with the word of God as it is in truth.

 

[Amy.G]

Friend,
This response is completely unbiblical and a clear denial of God's word.
If you do not believe the biblical revelation of God as creator...your unwise speculations about the nature of men and angels will be fruitless...unless you first come to grips with the word of God as it is in truth.

AMEN to that! :applause:

 

[preacher4truth]

Here I go with more 'mean spirited' remarks because I'm 'one messed up dude!' :laugh: :love2:

By way of application of Pauls instructions to Timothy;

"As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,

nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion," 1 Timothy 1:4-6

I think most of us here are among those who hold to sound doctrine and can agree with this instruction.

In the past I mentioned that Arms & non-cals have a tendency to go down paths of chimerical teachings such as we see here moreso than "Calvinists."


- Peace

 

[DaChaser1]

Hey mark_13, do you know of any theologians who hold to your views or thoughts? Have you gotten any of this from an orthodox study of angelology?

Angels are ONLY found to be in appearance of being a man, NEVER said to axctually be a man!

Always male......