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Are Carnal Christians Those Who Chose to Not Submit To Spirit But To Flesh?

Allan

Active Member
Yes, I think we have made some headway. Let's look as some other examples.

Lot was a carnal Christian, as I would define him. We don't know how long he lived that way in the city of Sodom, but apparently it was a long time. Eventually the Lord delivered "just Lot." Perhaps sometime after that, and after the incident of his drunkenness he began to live a Godly life. We don't have too much information on his life after that period of time.

Another good example is the man in 2Cor.5:1-5 who committed incest (fornication with his father's wife). This had been going on for some time, and the Corinthians were "puffed up" or proud about it. It was so serious a sin that it was not even committed among the Corinthian Gentiles and the Corinthians were known for their wickedness. This believer was a carnal Christian living in gross sin. Paul instructed the church to put him out of the church--to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. The goal was two-fold: Reconciliation to the church, and repentance of the believer. We find later in 2Cor. that this person did repent and was admitted back into the church. The actions of the church did save him from punishment from the Lord.

There is a picture of carnality in 1Cor.11 when the Christians were meeting together before the celebration of the Lord's Supper. They were gluttonous and some were even drunk. Paul shamed them. He said: "Don't you have houses to eat and drink in." This was a display of their divisiveness. The rich ate with the rich and they left the poor alone, not willing to share with them. The consequence is given in verse 30--some were weak, some were sick, and some had died. Why? They were carnal Christians acting carnal just before taking the Lord's Supper. They weren't taking it seriously.

This book was written to correct these problems. It was a carnal church (1Cor.3:1-5) and Paul writes and deals with one problem at a time.
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First, I agree with what you are getting at DHK. However I just have one notation to make.. in 2 Pet 2:7 when it says that God 'delivered just Lot.." it appears you are saying God delivered 'just or only' Lot. IF that is the case ...

The word 'just' here means righteous not only. God delivered Lot and his daughters so it can not mean 'only or just' Lot. However the context validates the meaning of 'righteous' as the rest of the verse states that Lot was vexed or distressed with the lifestyles of the wicked.

However, if that was not what you meant.. never mind :)
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>

Let me say one more thing. I know no of one who is considered a reputable bible teacher who holds my view. At least am not aware of any. They all hold yours a least in some manner. So I am aware that I am on thin ice at least when considering the scholars, but in this case I must stay with what I hold or I condemn my own conscience while praying that if I am wrong that the Lord will show me and if I am right He show others.
I appreciate your honesty.
Study carefully and you will find that each chapter is written with a different purpose in mind. Chapters five and six are closely connected as chapter six begins by answering the charge of antinomianism given at the end of chapter five. He then gives the picture of baptism and what it symbolizes. Concentrating on the aspect of death, he carries that over to how we should be dead to sin and expounds on that. He ends with verse 23, the wages of sin is death.

Roman 7 is a clear break as he starts out with an example of the law, how a woman is bound in marriage by the law, until her husband dies. Not until her husband dies is she free from the law. That picture in and of itself should set the stage that Paul is speaking to believers. Both are under the Mosaic law. Both are God's chosen people. It is a picture.

The purpose of the law is to lead us to Christ. We cannot keep the law. The law shows us our sin, our exceeding sinfulness. This is what Paul found. Compared to the law--"It is no more I, but sin that dwells in me." the more that he tried to keep the law (even as a Christian), the more he failed. There were the two natures struggling in him, one against the other. The one urged him to do the things that he didn't want to do. He spends a lot of time on that, because he knows we struggle with it. He cries out near the end of the chapter:

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (Romans 7:24)
--And that is what many of us feel like--a wretch before a holy God. Which one of us deserve to stand before a God as holy as God is holy? None of us. We are guilty sinners. He is just and holy. We have nothing to offer. What is the answer?
He gives it in the very next verse:

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:25)
--And this is how I must conquer my flesh, my old nature, throughout my Christian life.
From this point he goes into chapter 8 and gives a wonderful exposition of how our life is in Christ, and it is a victorious Christian life, a life that can never be separated from the love of God.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
First, I agree with what you are getting at DHK. However I just have one notation to make.. in 2 Pet 2:7 when it says that God 'delivered just Lot.." it appears you are saying God delivered 'just or only' Lot. IF that is the case ...

The word 'just' here means righteous not only. God delivered Lot and his daughters so it can not mean 'only or just' Lot. However the context validates the meaning of 'righteous' as the rest of the verse states that Lot was vexed or distressed with the lifestyles of the wicked.

However, if that was not what you meant.. never mind :)
Thanks for clarifying my ambiguity. :)
 
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