ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
So they don't believe the canons anymore?
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Are Catholics saved or even christians?
- Thread starter Soulman
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So they don't believe the canons anymore?
That's actually a common misconception. Papal infallibility is reserved for "ex cathedra" statements, not general statements a sitting pope makes. A statement which is not ex cathedra is not automatically considered to be akin to church doctrine. Even where doctrinal statements are made, they are subject to revision over time. An ex cathedral statement, however, is a statement which settles a doctrinal matter. Such statements are incredibly rare.
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Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
I'm sure they do. They will reinterpret them in light of more recent statements, just as they did with Vatican II. It takes a long time for the RCC to correct itself. It is simply the largest organization in the history of mankind, even larger than the US government or the EU. And it is made up of many people with the strong pull of traditionalism who are resistant to change. I think we should encourage them when these significant changes are made.
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Wow, so they are
1. They are infallible interpretors of the apostles
2. Their past interpretations are subject to newer statements.
There is no way then to know what this church has believed or will believe.
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ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
So this means:
1. The canons are fallible.
2. The catechism is fallible.
3. Encylicals, statements of popes, et. are fallible.
Then the questions are:
1. Where is the list of all infallible interpretations?
2. By what standard can I judge all fallible statements by this church?
Keep in mind, we bible believers are not the ones seeking supremcy over all of God's heritage.
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
I'm not a Catholic so I agree that they are not infallible interpretors of the apostles. You are preaching to the converted there.
Read their statements for what they have believed. I don't know what I will believe tomorrow either.
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
It makes no sense to read there statements if what you are saying is true.
I think the reality is that they are still the same old beast they always have been.
If Jesus died and made full atonement for our sins, then why are Catholics still paying for them in Purgatory? Why are they still being purged from their sins.
No, the RCC doesn't believe that Jesus died for all their sins. If they did they would not have such a blasphemous doctrine as purgatory which takes away from the sufficiency of the blood of Christ. If, as you say, "Jesus Himself once offered made a full perfect sufficient sacrifice for the sins of the whole world," then there would be no need for purgatory would there? Our sins would be forgiven. After death those who had accepted that forgiveness would go straight to heaven because the penalty for our sins has already been paid.
It seems to me that the origional question was: Are Catholics saved or even christians? I find it amazing how so many baptists simply ignore the evidence that catholicisim is a religion bent on taking people to hell. If you simply truly examine catholic teachings in light of the scriptures you could see that the religion doesn't measure up to the teachings of the bible.
I will say in light of these verses:2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Satan invented this atrocity called Roman Catholicisim. You cannot believe it's doctrines and be saved! If you deny this truth because you are too lazy to study in light of the scriptures, then you deny Gods word. You cannot put the bible and catholicisim in a context together. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole.
I will say in light of these verses:2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Satan invented this atrocity called Roman Catholicisim. You cannot believe it's doctrines and be saved! If you deny this truth because you are too lazy to study in light of the scriptures, then you deny Gods word. You cannot put the bible and catholicisim in a context together. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole.
And the original answer is that a person's religious affiliation does not dictate their salvific state. A member of the Roman Catholic Church who accepts the gift of salvation from Christ is heavenbound. Period.
Equally amazing is how so many baptist ignore evidence that blows huge holes in that claim.
No religious institution measures up to the teachings of scripture. That's why religious institutions are incapable of saving anyone.
Translation: "If you disagree with me, then you must be wrong, because I wouldn't even give one shred of consideration to the notion that I might be in error."
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I assume since you call yourself ReformedBaptist that you believe in the Doctrine of Sovereign Election. If so how can you believe that no one in the Roman Catholic Church is among the elect.
Or that all who call themselves Primitive Baptists, Old Baptists, Old Regulars, or Reformed Baptists, are indeed all elect ?
bySoulman: I find it amazing how so many baptists simply ignore the evidence that catholicisim is a religion bent on taking people to hell.
The religion is, true. But the blood of Jesus Christ shed at the cross is more powerful than the grip or doctrine of a religion, and it was not shed on condition that the redeemed individual sinner be non-Catholic.
The religion is, true. But the blood of Jesus Christ shed at the cross is more powerful than the grip or doctrine of a religion, and it was not shed on condition that the redeemed individual sinner be non-Catholic.
Originally Posted by Soulman View Post
'If you deny this truth because you are too lazy to study in light of the scriptures, then you deny Gods word.'
After years as a Baptist, I was convinced that Baptist doctrine was 'sound'. I had concluded that Catholics were not Christians as well. I had overwhelming evidence to that fact. Then I began to read and study Catholic teaching. I visited this board often and read the explanations of Catholics (while they were allowed to participate here) on their church's doctrines. I examined the scriptures. I concluded that the Catholic interpretation of the Bible was the correct one and that it was my beliefs that had been in error.
Was I 'too lazy to study in light of the scriptures?' Not hardly. I had to see lots of evidence before I made my decision. In fact, at first I became an Anglican because that was as close to Catholicism as I thought I could move.
I don't deny God's word. I totally embarce God's word. I just don't believe your interpretation of God' word.
'If you deny this truth because you are too lazy to study in light of the scriptures, then you deny Gods word.'
After years as a Baptist, I was convinced that Baptist doctrine was 'sound'. I had concluded that Catholics were not Christians as well. I had overwhelming evidence to that fact. Then I began to read and study Catholic teaching. I visited this board often and read the explanations of Catholics (while they were allowed to participate here) on their church's doctrines. I examined the scriptures. I concluded that the Catholic interpretation of the Bible was the correct one and that it was my beliefs that had been in error.
Was I 'too lazy to study in light of the scriptures?' Not hardly. I had to see lots of evidence before I made my decision. In fact, at first I became an Anglican because that was as close to Catholicism as I thought I could move.
I don't deny God's word. I totally embarce God's word. I just don't believe your interpretation of God' word.
The way I see it...you used to be baptist and so did I...you're Roman Catholic and I'm Orthodox...as baptists it was "once saved always saved"...so it looks like we at least have our bases covered...
In XC
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1. It is a matter of saying one thing and believing another.
2. It is a matter of a contradictory Catechism.
3. It is a matter of logic. The RCC cannot see the illogical position of its own doctrine. You cannot believe in the all sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ, and Purgatory at the same time. They are polar opposites of each other. If you believe one you cannot believe the other.
When Christ said: "It is finished" (John 19:30), referring to his work of salvation on the cross, was he lying?? Or was there more work on the part of mankind to be done in Purgatory?
Either the work of Christ was enough and Purgatory is false.
Or the work of Christ is insufficient, and man must work his way to heaven through his own sufferings in purgatory. Which is it?
by Lori4dogs said:
Lori,
For you to be convinced that Baptist doctrines are unsound and that Roman Catholic doctrines are sound just shows to me that you may not have been thoroughly grounded and taught by your pastor(s) and elders.
Catholics are NOT Christians if we want to say that ALL Catholics are Christians.
There ARE Roman Catholics who are Christians based not on what doctrines they hold on to right now, but based on the choice of God of them in eternity past and without a doubt, in His own due time, He will regenerate each one of them, and conversion from error to truth will begin.
I was born and raised a Roman Catholic in a Roman Catholic country by devout Roman Catholics in my family, and I studied in Roman Catholic schools all the way to before graduation in High School, so I should know something about Roman Catholicism.
But I have no idea of your background as a former Baptist, it may have been disappointing since it is also true that the conduct of those with whom we associate could likely turn us off, and drive us into the arms of those who we otherwise wouldn't associate with.
Almost happened to me.
Almost driven from being Baptist to just being non-denominational in truth and in deed had it not been for God bringing me to the Primitive Baptists.
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