Are certain political views sinful?

[Calminian]

These are straw man arguments.

They were rhetorical questions, which exposed your straw man argument. You stated that it's sinful to rely on government, knowing full well you often rely on government. We all do.

The discussion is about whether certain political views are sinful and whether voting for someone with certain political views is sinful.

You have given your opinion. According to your view, every time a Christian votes, they are willfully sinning against God, but they should do it anyway, because governments have been established by God and we should participate.

Wow, I see you're no longer engaging in a serious discussion, if that's really want you pulled out of my posts. I don't even think you believe what you just said.

Additionally, Christians must only vote Repubs because the Dems are "pro-abortion holocaust".

Yes, I believe Christians should not turn their backs on the unborn. It's immoral, as I explained in my analogy.

James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.​

Have I misunderstood your positions? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No, I don't believe you have misunderstood. I think you're getting defensive, and obfuscating.

But since you're misrepresenting my view, I'll lay it out my personal convictions on this issue.

So far I've concluded this about those who vote for abortion and other obviously sinful leftist causes.

I don't believe all are sinning who support the heinous act of abortion. I do, however, believe some are sinning, and perhaps most. Some are indeed fooled and ignorant on the subject. We live in a propaganda age, and I can see how some are temporarily blinded on politics and how the system works. Some might be young Christians, still learning about Biblical truth (still on milk). But others know the facts, but cannot (are not willing to) separate themselves from the sinful politics they've trusted in for so long. They may be under conviction, soon to repent, or they may not be saved at all.

All sins of the Christian are forgivable, but those who totally embrace abortion and leftism and vote accordingly have to ask themselves whether they really are Christians. I believe many aren't.

But I could never say for certain they are not saved, because all Christians can fall into sin.

I will add this, though. While the moral implications of some political issues aren't as easily apparent, this is not the case with the abortion holocaust. It really is apparent, even to many non-Christians. That's why the Church must always stand against it.​

These are my conclusions thus far.

 

[canadyjd]

They were rhetorical questions, which exposed your straw man argument. You stated that it's sinful to rely on government, knowing full well you often rely on government. We all do.



Wow, I see you're no longer engaging in a serious discussion, if that's really want you pulled out of my posts. I don't even think you believe what you just said.



Yes, I believe Christians should not turn their backs on the unborn. It's immoral, as I explained in my analogy.

James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.​

No, I don't believe you have misunderstood. I think you're getting defensive, and obfuscating.

But since you're misrepresenting my view, I'll lay it out my personal convictions on this issue.

So far I've concluded this about those who vote for abortion and other obviously sinful leftist causes.

I don't believe all are sinning who support the heinous act of abortion. I do, however, believe some are sinning, and perhaps most. Some are indeed fooled and ignorant on the subject. We live in a propaganda age, and I can seejo how some are temporarily blinded on politics and how the system works. Some might be young Christians, still learning about Biblical truth (still on milk). But others know the facts, but cannot (are not willing to) separate themselves from the sinful politics they've trusted in for so long. They may be under conviction, soon to repent, or they may not be saved at all.

All sins of the Christian are forgivable, but those who totally embrace abortion and leftism and vote accordingly have to ask themselves whether they really are Christians. I believe many aren't.

But I could never say for certain they are not saved, because all Christians can fall into sin.

I will add this, though. While the moral implications of some political issues aren't as easily apparent, this is not the case with the abortion holocaust. It really is apparent, even to many non-Christians. That's why the Church must always stand against it.​

These are my conclusions thus far.

I asked if it would be sinful to vote for the most pro-l*fe president in history because of his support for marriage equality and transg*nder issues. You replied "yes" in post#107.

You went on to explain that only thing that matters is the appointment if conservative judges.

If no other issues matter, why are we trying to figure out which political views or votes are sinful? Just say it! If a Christian votes for anyone that doesn't support conservative judges, they are sinning, in your opinion.

You went on to say all votes are "compromise" votes because we all have a sin nature. Therefore, every time you vote, you compromise your faith. If that is true it is sinning against God to vote.

At this point, we are just talking past each other. We are going to disagree.

Thanks for the conversation. Peace to you

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Praying for someone to get cancer and die, for whatever reason, is contrary to scripture and shameful.

Peace to you

Consider this scripture:

Rom 12:20 KJV - Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 KJV - Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

"thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.". Cancer might be preferable.

I ponder what the prayer would be for my enemy? Would it be for enlightenment to agree with me or would it indeed be to heap lumps of coals on his head!!

 

[Wesley Briggman]

If you align politically, you alienate many you should be trying to reach for Christ. You also misrepresent Christ.

My conviction is to be separated from the world as much as possible as I seek to walk with Christ led by the Holy Spirit. However, I do not believe my actions or in-actions will over come the will of God to save His elect. If I am used by Him to aid in His efforts, praise be to Him.

Do you believe anyone who makes the false claim that the U.S. is or ever was a "Christian nation" is misrepresenting Christ? That position has in the past been a political rallying cry and today, with the animosity between the parties, even more so.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36 (KJV 1900)

Do you conclude that the life in this scripture in referring to physical life? I sincerely hope not.

 

[1689Dave]

Do you conclude that the life in this scripture in referring to physical life? I sincerely hope not.

It says those who believe are eternally saved in God, without beginning or end.

 

[1689Dave]

My conviction is to be separated from the world as much as possible as I seek to walk with Christ led by the Holy Spirit. However, I do not believe my actions or in-actions will over come the will of God to save His elect. If I am used by Him to aid in His efforts, praise be to Him.

Do you believe anyone who makes the false claim that the U.S. is or ever was a "Christian nation" is misrepresenting Christ? That position has in the past been a political rallying cry and today, with the animosity between the parties, even more so.

I think it is near blasphemy to associate Christ with any kingdom of Satan.

 

[Christopher m]

Consider this scripture:

Rom 12:20 KJV - Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 KJV - Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

"thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.". Cancer might be preferable.

I ponder what the prayer would be for my enemy? Would it be for enlightenment to agree with me or would it indeed be to heap lumps of coals on his head!!

Consider this scripture:

Rom 12:20 KJV - Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 KJV - Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

"thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.". Cancer might be preferable.

I ponder what the prayer would be for my enemy? Would it be for enlightenment to agree with me or would it indeed be to heap lumps of coals on his head!!

How about obey His commandments, feed your enemy and give him drink, and pray that Gods Will be done in your life as well as your enemy?

 

[canadyjd]

Consider this scripture:

Rom 12:20 KJV - Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 KJV - Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

"thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.". Cancer might be preferable.

I ponder what the prayer would be for my enemy? Would it be for enlightenment to agree with me or would it indeed be to heap lumps of coals on his head!!

I think you misunderstand the passage. Paul is not praying for heaps of coal. He is saying when you do good toward your enemies, and they still persecute you, that will be against them in the judgment before God.

Always do good. Always pray for good, never evil.

Peace to you

 

[Calminian]

I asked if it would be sinful to vote for the most pro-l*fe president in history because of his support for marriage equality and transg*nder issues. You replied "yes" in post#107.

I just clarified my position. If you still don't understand it, it's because you don't want to.

 

[canadyjd]

I just clarified my position. If you still don't understand it, it's because you don't want to.

I accept what you said. I understand your positions.

I think you might be surprised at my political views. I suspect I agree with you on most political issues.

I disagree with your focus on the government to accomplish religious goals. I disagree with your attempt to tie Christian maturity to political views and votes. I disagree with your proclamation that Christians must have certain political views or they are probably not really saved.

Peace to you

 

[Calminian]

I accept what you said. I understand your positions.

I think you might be surprised at my political views. I suspect I agree with you on most political issues.

I disagree with your focus on the government to accomplish religious goals.

Then we're miles apart. You would not have backed the abolitionist efforts of Christians in the 1800s.

I disagree with your attempt to tie Christian maturity to political views and votes.

Miles apart.

I disagree with your proclamation that Christians must have certain political views or they are probably not really saved.

Certain macro moral political views, yes. If someone is vehemently pro-legalized abortion, pro-gay marriage etc. I have serious very doubts about their understanding of Scripture, and, if it's persistent, about their salvation. There are certain implications a true Christians should be able to draw.

 

[canadyjd]

Ok, miles apart.

Thanks for the conversation

Peace to you

 

[Rockson]

Just a basic question. I hear from some that Christians that say any political view is fair game and should never be judged. Others say quite the contrary (myself included). Was a vote for human slavery a benign political view?

What about the major moral issue of our day—abortion. 60 millions babies just in the US since RvW. That's 10x Hitler's holocaust. Looking at an abortion counting website, I counted a baby murdered every 35 seconds. Some Christians are praying for the death of SC Justices who protect the unborn. I certainly get this, it would be like praying for Hitler to die before he kills more children. Yet others say this is shameful, and even vote for politicians that support legalized abortion. They dismiss abortion as just another political issue like environmentalism.

I'm of the opinion that politics cannot be separated from morality, and morality can't be separated from testimony. I see today's leftism as perhaps the most dangerous ideology in existence—pro legalized abortion, anti-gender, pro-globalism, anti-free speech and religion. etc.. Thus I think voting for this ideology is sinful.

There I said it! Definitely not going to be popular.

Curious your opinion.

Much of what you say if true but you need to be careful. God has not called us to create a morality revolution as in stop abortions and then you feel a great victory has been won. We're called to get people saved and having their spirits born again and being made a new creature in Christ. We do that and morality issues take care of themselves. If we put the focus on social vices and that's all we do the Kingdom of God isn't truly advanced. God prime concern is to change people's hearts.

 

[Calminian]

Much of what you say if true but you need to be careful. God has not called us to create a morality revolution as in stop abortions and then you feel a great victory has been won. We're called to get people saved and having their spirits born again and being made a new creature in Christ. We do that and morality issues take care of themselves. If we put the focus on social vices and that's all we do the Kingdom of God isn't truly advanced. God prime concern is to change people's hearts.

Absolutely. The Gospel is primary. However, Scripture does say we need to do the good we know to do. (James 4:17). And we can't separate the Gospel from testimony, nor testimony from morality, nor morality from politics.

Yes, of course we preach the Gospel, but we also preach the effects or fruit of the Gospel, which is morality. That transformation from faith then becomes our testimony. If we are indeed saved and transformed, we should be very disturbed by certain macro-moral political issues.

But I'm in agreement, this never takes precedence. But Jesus said, by their fruits you will know them. If a Pastor, for instance, was vehemently pro-legalized abortion and pro-legalized marriage, that should be a red flag.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[canadyjd]

Then we're miles apart. You would not have backed the abolitionist efforts of Christians in the 1800s...

Professing Christians on both sides in the civil war claimed God's blessings on their efforts.

The Christians in the south sought to use the power of a secular government to force their beliefs on everyone else, just as you would do.

Though slavery was root cause of the civil war, Abraham Lincoln went to war for a secular, political reason, not a religious one. He would not allow the southern states to secede and form a new country.

Which came first? Did southern states secede first? Or did Prsident Lincoln give the emancipation proclamation first?

The southern states seceded prior to Lincoln's inauguration.

Britian was able to abolish slavery without a civil war. I suspect the abitionist Christians in Britian were not praying for death by cancer toward those that disagreed with them.

Peace to you

 

[Ziggy]

One also has to remember that slave states still existed in the north and continued as such through the war period, not being affected by the Emancipation Proclamation.

 

[Calminian]

Professing Christians on both sides in the civil war claimed God's blessings on their efforts.

The Christians in the south sought to use the power of a secular government to force their beliefs on everyone else, just as you would do.

Though slavery was root cause of the civil war, Abraham Lincoln went to war for a secular, political reason, not a religious one. He would not allow the southern states to secede and form a new country.

Which came first? Did southern states secede first? Or did Prsident Lincoln give the emancipation proclamation first?

The southern states seceded prior to Lincoln's inauguration.

Britian was able to abolish slavery without a civil war. I suspect the abitionist Christians in Britian were not praying for death by cancer toward those that disagreed with them.

Peace to you

You wouldn't have voted against, slavery. Got it. We're miles apart.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 2:15 PM Pacific.

 

[Calminian]

One also has to remember that slave states still existed in the north and continued as such through the war period, not being affected by the Emancipation Proclamation.

Yes, in fact here's a great video from PragerU on the aftermath of the emancipation.
Reconstruction: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Yes, of course, there was resistance, particularly from the Democrat party who brought forth the KKK and other forms of resistance.

And no doubt, the same messiness will occur if RvW is overturned. Just look at how liberals were scratching at the doors of the SC when Kavanaugh was being confirmed! Just wait n see what the next SC appointment is going to be like, especially if a liberal is being replaced with a conservative. All hell will break loose.

Righteous fights are never easy.