Are miracles always instantaneous?

[Yeshua1]

I think I was unclear. What I meant was that when God does something miraculous (instantly taking away the addiction and desire for drugs, it is a miracle. People can then say with the Psalmist, " That they may know that this is thy hand; that thou, LORD, hast done it" (Ps. 109:27). The NT word "sign" points to the working of God.

On the other hand, a 12 Step cure that takes much time may be from God or it may not. If it is from God, it is providential, not a miracle. God's providence works through imperfect humans. If someone is not saved and goes through the 12 Step process and is cured, that may or may not be providential, depending on what happens afterward--is God eventually glorified, or is He not.

More clear? I hope so.

I know persons who when saved by the Grace of God right then and there were able to stop drinking, smoking, swearing, but many others still had to deal with sin areas still, just now had the power to over come them!

 

[Walter]

We obviously have different definitions of "miracle." I don't think you have quite grasped what I am saying. I am not saying that people are not helped through the 12 steps program, and I am not saying God does not use it. I am also saying that not everyone who is addicted will or should have an instantaneous miracle. That is kind of rare. Our own church uses the "Recovery Unanimous" (RU) program.

I also don't think you are understanding the distinction between "miracle" and "providential." Simply because I say 12 Steps does not produce miracles does not mean I am saying that God has not used it. God uses humans in non-miraculous providential ways as well as providing miracles when it is His will to do so. I praise the Lord for whoever is helped through 12 Steps. And it may or may not be providential or miraculous.

We do have a different definition of 'miracle', John. When I witness the obsession to use/drink lifted from addicted people, I see that as a miracle. I agree that the obsession lifted instantaneously from chemically dependent people is rare. But, I saw it take place for my uncle and he never stepped foot in a twelve step program.

I'm glad to hear that your own church is using 'Recovery Unanimous'. It is a fine Christ centered recovery program. Also glad to see that it offers transitional living for people who need intensive treatment. The majority of my clients are in recovery homes and the success rate is much higher than those who live outside of them.

I personally experienced the miracle of God taking the obsession to drink from me many years ago. It took place while working with a sponsor and through the 12 steps. Before this took place, I battled with the obsession to drink every single day of my life. I have not had the desire to drink since putting the 12 steps in my life. Again, the 12 steps are biblically based and that is why they work. I don't believe it was simply 'providential' or 'seeming to come from a Divine power. I know in my heart that God 'did for me what I could not do for myself.'

Blessings on you and your churches RU program.

 

[Walter]

I know persons who when saved by the Grace of God right then and there were able to stop drinking, smoking, swearing, but many others still had to deal with sin areas still, just now had the power to over come them!

I praise God when I hear that people who come to the foot of the cross are delivered instantly from sinful behavior. That is usually very rare. Most find that they continue to struggle but God has principles set out in His word that are guidelines to recovery. Personally, I have found that programs like Celebrate Recovery which are based on faith in Christ have the highest success rate in transforming lives though biblical principles. Here they are and why they work:

Realize I’m not God; I admit that I am powerless to control my tendency to do the wrong thing and that my life is unmanageable. (Step 1)
“Happy are those who know that they are spiritually poor.” Matthew 5:3a TEV

Earnestly believe that God exists, that I matter to Him and that He has the power to help me recover. (Step 2)
“Happy are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.” Matthew 5:4 TEV, NIV

Consciously choose to commit all my life and will to Christ’s care and control. (Step 3)
“Happy are the meek.” Matthew 5:5a TEV

Openly examine and confess my faults to myself, to God, and to someone I trust. (Steps 4 and 5)
“Happy are the pure in heart.” Matthew 5:8a TEV

Voluntarily submit to any and all changes God wants to make in my life and humbly ask Him to remove my character defects. (Steps 6 and 7)
“Happy are those whose greatest desire is to do what God requires” Matthew 5:6a TEV

Evaluate all my relationships. Offer forgiveness to those who have hurt me and make amends for harm I’ve done to others when possible, except when to do so would harm them or others. (Steps 8 and 9)
“Happy are the merciful.” Matthew 5:7a TEV; “Happy are the peacemakers” Matthew 5:9 TEV

Reserve a daily time with God for self-examination, Bible reading, and prayer in order to know God and His will for my life and to gain the power to follow His will. (Steps 10 and 11)

Yield myself to God to be used to bring this Good News to others, both by my example and my words. (Step 12)
“Happy are those who are persecuted because they do what God requires.” Matthew 5:10 TEV