Are some Churches getting out of hand?

[HankD]

I'm sorry, but I do not see anything in scripture to suggest that Jesus died to redeem our sexuality.

Don't be sorry, go back and read the 3 passages I cited:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
2 Timothy 2:19-22.
Ephesians 4:17-24.

And let me qualify it a bit more:

In this life while we are in this flesh, these are the expectations that the Spirit of God speaks through His word. That this part of our existence be sanctified according to His desire.

Here is another:

Galatians 5

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.​

HankD

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Go back and read the 3 passages I cited

I did and there was nothing in them about Jesus dying to redeem our sexuality.

 

[annsni]

What is our sexuality? Is it affected by sin?

ABSOLUTELY!

If it is affected by sin, then of course Jesus' blood affects our sexuality.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

What is our sexuality? Is it affected by sin?

ABSOLUTELY!

If it is affected by sin, then of course Jesus' blood affects our sexuality.

Then show a verse that says that Jesus died to redeem our sexuality.

Jesus died as the propitiation for our sin, to save us from God's wrath, and so that we might be children of God. Not to redeem our sexuality.

 

[annsni]

Then show a verse that says that Jesus died to redeem our sexuality.

Jesus died as the propitiation for our sin, to save us from God's wrath, and so that we might be children of God. Not to redeem our sexuality.

Yes. And is our sexuality affected by sin?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Then show a verse that says that Jesus died to redeem our sexuality.

Jesus died as the propitiation for our sin, to save us from God's wrath, and so that we might be children of God. Not to redeem our sexuality.

What about this verse:

20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

It seems that our bodies are redemed as well which seems to include our sexuality.

 

[Shortandy]

I was just curious. What communion was he talking about when he described her breasts (8 times) and aluded to the sucking of the breasts? Please help me understand because I really hadn't figured this into my relationship with my Lord.

The reason I lean towards an allegorical interpretation is because I believe Scripture to be more about Christ than about you or me. Simply making about sex makes it all about you and less and less about Christ. If you can tell me how sucking breast benefits me spiritually then please expound. If you don't like my interpretation fine but to arrogantly say I don't understand scripture is a problem. For maybe you have not read the passages about pride my friend.

In an allegorical interpretation it is about intimacy. That would be my take on it.

 

[annsni]

What about this verse:

It seems that our bodies are redemed as well which seems to include our sexuality.

Exactly. ALL of us has been redeemed from sin. It's ALL affected.

If sexuality was not tainted by sin, then there would be no sexual sins. But there are. So it MUST be affected by the blood of Christ.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

What about this verse:

It seems that our bodies are redemed as well which seems to include our sexuality.

First of all, sexuality is not a part of the body. Second, the body is dead, so why does sexuality have to be redeemed after death?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Exactly. ALL of us has been redeemed from sin. It's ALL affected.

If sexuality was not tainted by sin, then there would be no sexual sins. But there are. So it MUST be affected by the blood of Christ.

Could you please show a verse that says that Jesus died to redeem our sexuality?

 

[HankD]

I did and there was nothing in them about Jesus dying to redeem our sexuality.

OK let me parse it out a little bit more and supply another passage.

When we are redeemed, each aspect of our lives as human beings is (or should be since it requires our obedient cooperation) brought under the control of the Holy Spirit.

These four passages (as well as others) clearly spell out in no uncertain terms what manner of life is expected by our Father in heaven of His children. This expectation is not within our own power but the power of His resurrection when we reckon it to be so:

Romans 6

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.​

Linking this passage with the Galatians 5 passage and the "crucifixion of the flesh", the control over this part of our humanity is also a product of the grace of God and the atonement of Jesus Christ (His resurrection in particular).

This word "reckon" in context has the sense of the deliberation of a fact and acting upon it. We ourselves are powerless to crucify our flesh. Therefore God has supplied that power through identifying with the resurrection of Jesus Christ as an act of our redeemed will.

To use the word "redeemed" concerning this part of our humanity means to acquire the power of control over the flesh within the parameters of the word of God.

In practical terms it means a scriptural and legal marriage between one man and one woman.

HankD

 

[Thinkingstuff]

First of all, sexuality is not a part of the body. Second, the body is dead, so why does sexuality have to be redeemed after death?

That is an absurd statement: Here is what the bible says about it. Sexuality is very much apart of our bodies.

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

 

[saturneptune]

You know, it's a shame your parents didn't teach you any manners. You might be a very pleasant person to talk to, if only they had.

You are exactly right. I have no tolerance for someone who signs up on this board with an agenda of not debating, but arguing with everyone, especially when then person who just signed up has such a lack of understanding of the issues involved.

If you cannot understand the difference in "I won them" and "the Lord drew them" then you really need some help. I do believe worship of the Lord means the honor and glory of anything focuses on Jesus, not us.

 

[Shortandy]

The reason this thread has gotten so heated is because we have gotten off task. The original question was about "some churches" not "all". Could or should the topic of sex and sexuality be taught in a biblical, God-honoring way. I think the answer is yes. But are "some churches getting out of hand?" I also think the answer is yes and you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise. For some, not all, are using signs and slogans that are secular and I believe go against the demand for the church to be holy and seperate. Remember Paul intructs us to "come out from them."

All the other post have become personal so maybe some new threads would be appropriate. I am not an administrator and don't want to be so please don't think I am trying to step over the line. I just think we are chasing a few rabbits here.

 

[HankD]

The reason this thread has gotten so heated is because we have gotten off task. The original question was about "some churches" not "all". Could or should the topic of sex and sexuality be taught in a biblical, God-honoring way. I think the answer is yes. But are "some churches getting out of hand?" I also think the answer is yes and you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise. For some, not all, are using signs and slogans that are secular and I believe go against the demand for the church to be holy and seperate. Remember Paul intructs us to "come out from them."

All the other post have become personal so maybe some new threads would be appropriate. I am not an administrator and don't want to be so please don't think I am trying to step over the line. I just think we are chasing a few rabbits here.

You are correct Andy and many of the posts in this thread seem to violate warning # 3 of this forum.
I have tried to speak in generalities but I am guilty as well.

HankD

 

[annsni]

First of all, sexuality is not a part of the body. Second, the body is dead, so why does sexuality have to be redeemed after death?

Sexuality is part of our being.

If you feel that sexuality is dead after coming to Christ, then I feel very sorry for your wife, if you are married. If you are not, then it only affects you.

But I'm grateful to God for redeeming ALL of me.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

OK let me parse it out a little bit more and supply another passage.

When we are redeemed, each aspect of our lives as human beings is (or should be since it requires our obedient cooperation) brought under the control of the Holy Spirit.

That's completely different.

Saying, "Because of the new nature I've received when I was born again, I am now compelled to bring my sexuality into submission to Christ" is not even remotely like "Christ died to redeem our sexuality".

These four passages (as well as others) clearly spell out in no uncertain terms what manner of life is expected by our Father in heaven of His children.

I agree, but not one of them have anything to do with "Christ dying to redeem our sexuality".

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Sexuality is part of our being.

But it is not a part of the body and the body in that verse is dead and, thus, does not have inherent sexuality.

If you feel that sexuality is dead after coming to Christ, then I feel very sorry for your wife, if you are married.

No, I never said that sexuality is dead after coming to Christ. I said that the body referred to in that verse is dead. Paul is talking about the literal, physical bodies of Christians will be resurrected.

But I'm grateful to God for redeeming ALL of me.

I'm grateful to Christ for dying to save me from God's wrath and that my sins may be forgiven. And I'm grateful to the Holy Spirit for regenerating me, thus giving me a new nature and causing my sexuality to naturally fall into submission to Christ.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Could or should the topic of sex and sexuality be taught in a biblical, God-honoring way. I think the answer is yes. But are "some churches getting out of hand?" I also think the answer is yes and you would be hard pressed to prove otherwise. For some, not all, are using signs and slogans that are secular and I believe go against the demand for the church to be holy and seperate. Remember Paul intructs us to "come out from them."

I agree. The following is a real add by a real church to promote one of these sex series. Please, somebody, tell me how this is Biblical:

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2009/04/beer-babes-baseball-on-easter-sunday.html

 

[JohnDeereFan]

You are exactly right. I have no tolerance for someone who signs up on this board with an agenda of not debating, but arguing with everyone, especially when then person who just signed up has such a lack of understanding of the issues involved.

If you really believe that I have no understanding, then please email my church and express your concerns to them and explain why you believe I should not be preaching or teaching there.

PastorJim_GeorgetownBaptistChuch@Yahoo.com

If you cannot understand the difference in "I won them" and "the Lord drew them" then you really need some help.

Actually, I understand the difference very well. That's why I'm not the one who claimed they're the same thing.

I stand by the verses I cited for you, but if you would like to explain your opinion as to why those verses are wrong, I'll be happy to hear you out.

I do believe worship of the Lord means the honor and glory of anything focuses on Jesus, not us.

As do I.