1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You don't understand the text in either place. Give it some thought.
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Are Unbelievers Free Agents Who Do Their Own Will Whenever They Want?
- Thread starter Scripture More Accurately
- Start date
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
“And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.” 2 Chronicles 18:19 (KJV 1900)
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Yes but then you equate that with saying God wanted the evil of the lying tongue and was specifically soliciting that, that is not the case. You are the one that needs to read more closely, you are the one making God the author of evil when Scripture CLEARLY says otherwise.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
God causes sin. Wicked people are the author.
“A man’s heart deviseth his way: But the LORD directeth his steps.” Proverbs 16:9 (KJV 1900)
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If God did not want a Lying Spirit to seduce Ahab and his prophets, why did he do exactly that?
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
Neither. Of course, every unbeliever is not possessed by a demon. Scripture attests both to many unbelievers who were possessed by demons and to unbelievers who were not.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
Interesting analogy. How does it help answer my original question?
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
You are speaking wrongly about God. He does not cause sin.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
Luke 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.
Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Jesus taught that Satan had bound this woman for 18 years so that she was not in any way able to lift up herself. Regardless of how much she wanted to straighten herself up, she was unable to do so.
In the same way, Satan keeps unbelievers blinded and bound in their sins, and they are not able in and of themselves to deliver themselves from that bondage in any way regardless of whatever degree that they might want to do so. Only God can deliver them from that bondage.
Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Jesus taught that Satan had bound this woman for 18 years so that she was not in any way able to lift up herself. Regardless of how much she wanted to straighten herself up, she was unable to do so.
In the same way, Satan keeps unbelievers blinded and bound in their sins, and they are not able in and of themselves to deliver themselves from that bondage in any way regardless of whatever degree that they might want to do so. Only God can deliver them from that bondage.
By making it known, by analogy, that one is doing the devil's bidding by doing only as one wants; and that's all that's needed for the devil's "franchise tag" to be upon one so one is then stuck with him.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
Hmm. Interesting way to put it. I do not think that understanding is theologically accurate concerning all the acts of all unbelievers.
If the devil could have his way fully, he would want people to sin as much as possible in as many ways as possible as often as possible. Aside from demonically possessed people and at least some occultists and possibly some idolaters, however, even the vast, vast majority of unbelievers do not do that for extended periods.
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1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Why would Jesus tell us to pray that God does not lead us into temptation? It shows you do not understand James or this passage.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
It is not sinful to be tempted--it is sinful to yield to temptation.
Praying that God would lead us not into temptation, if He so wills, expresses to God our dependence on God and awareness that we are very prone to sin by yielding to the temptation to sin. Satan, not God, is the tempter.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Every person ever tempted, including Jesus, was placed in that position by God.
“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.” Matthew 4:1 (KJV 1900)
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
God never tempts anyone to sin. Never. He may lead a person into temptation, but that never makes Him responsible for their sinning if they yield to it.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
People are sinful. The devil tempts them. But God arranges for it. You have no credibility unless you've been tempted and have overcome it.
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
I have not said anything to the contrary. Whether the devil is the ultimate source of every temptation to sin that any person ever experiences is something that has to be proven--it cannot just be asserted.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Could it be you are ignorant of any such proof?
Scripture More Accurately
Well-Known Member
Maybe so. Feel free to prove it using Scripture.