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Are you producing False Converts?

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Don

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The Biblicist said:
If ignorance of the gospel secures salvation then let us all keep the gospel a secret so that all can be saved. Mere violation of our own conscience is sufficient to condemn us to hell justly much less violation of the revealed written law of God. We do not need to reject the gospel to be condemned justly to hell. However, we do need to hear and obey the gospel to be saved from hell.
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I believe you've taken the quote out of context, and thus inadvertently misrepresented the position.

It wasn't:
Originally Posted by saturneptune View Post
A person who never hears the Gospel......will be taken care of by a merciful Lord.
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It was:
A person who never hears the Gospel, infants, the mentally ill will be taken care of by a merciful Lord.
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The people who "never hear" are the infants and the mentally ill; the ones who may hear, but cannot understand. The way I read the quote was: A person who never hears the Gospel--infants, the mentally ill--will be taken care of by a merciful Lord.

SN, if I'm wrong, please clarify.
 
The Biblicist

The Biblicist

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Don said:
I believe you've taken the quote out of context, and thus inadvertently misrepresented the position.

It wasn't:
It was:
The people who "never hear" are the infants and the mentally ill; the ones who may hear, but cannot understand. The way I read the quote was: A person who never hears the Gospel--infants, the mentally ill--will be taken care of by a merciful Lord.

SN, if I'm wrong, please clarify.
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You are right, I did misunderstand the original quote. My apologies.
 
Q

quantumfaith

Active Member
Don said:
I believe you've taken the quote out of context, and thus inadvertently misrepresented the position.

It wasn't:
It was:
The people who "never hear" are the infants and the mentally ill; the ones who may hear, but cannot understand. The way I read the quote was: A person who never hears the Gospel--infants, the mentally ill--will be taken care of by a merciful Lord.

SN, if I'm wrong, please clarify.
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:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:


Don, that brings up the honest question....What about those (not infants etc) who truly never are exposed to the gospel message. (assuming of course that such persons exist) Are they simply rejected? Is there some special grace granted to them? Are they given a chance to hear the gospel? I do realize it would be easy to theologize about such, but I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks
 
evangelist6589

evangelist6589

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quantumfaith said:
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:


Don, that brings up the honest question....What about those (not infants etc) who truly never are exposed to the gospel message. (assuming of course that such persons exist) Are they simply rejected? Is there some special grace granted to them? Are they given a chance to hear the gospel? I do realize it would be easy to theologize about such, but I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks
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Do you plan on answering my questions in a previous post?
 
Q

quantumfaith

Active Member
evangelist6589 said:
Do you plan on answering my questions in a previous post?
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No, I won't respond to your constant criticism of Andy Stanley. I have let you know, that I am glad to have him as a lead pastor. Nothing I could ever say would change your perspective. I think you are wrong...you think I am wrong...guess it will simply stay just like that.
 
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Rippon

Well-Known Member
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quantumfaith said:
Don, that brings up the honest question....What about those (not infants etc) who truly never are exposed to the gospel message. (assuming of course that such persons exist) Are they simply rejected?
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Yes. The Lord has mercy on some and hardens others. Bottom line everyone is without excuse and they can't blame God at the Final Judgement.
Is there some special grace granted to them?
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No. There are not three categories of people --just two -the sheep and the goats. Folks go to everlasting perdition or Heaven. There is no mediating place.
Are they given a chance to hear the gospel?
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God,in His sovereign will has decreed that they will not hear the Gospel --there are no "chances" or opportunities associated with His free-will.

Billy Graham and Robert Schuller agreed with each other about the "wideness of God's mercy" in the sense of God causing many who never hear the Gospel being saved after all. They agreed that whther they subscribed to Islam or Buddism or what have you --they were Christians whether they knew it or not.

However that is just directly opposed to Scripture. I hope that no one on the BB believes that devilish stuff.
 
Q

quantumfaith

Active Member
Rippon said:
Yes. The Lord has mercy on some and hardens others. Bottom line everyone is without excuse and they can't blame God at the Final Judgement.

No. There are not three categories of people --just two -the sheep and the goats. Folks go to everlasting perdition or Heaven. There is no mediating place.

God,in His sovereign will has decreed that they will not hear the Gospel --there are no "chances" or opportunities associated with His free-will.

Billy Graham and Robert Schuller agreed with each other about the "wideness of God's mercy" in the sense of God causing many who never hear the Gospel being saved after all. They agreed that whther they subscribed to Islam or Buddism or what have you --they were Christians whether they knew it or not.

However that is just directly opposed to Scripture. I hope that no one on the BB believes that devilish stuff.
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While I agree with you about two types of people, I reject (not arrogantly) the notion that God hardened with intentionality the "others". As you know, I do not share your theological position, I respect it, but do not share it.

Can I reason "opposed" to you with elegant, and articulate theological skill...No I am not gifted in such a way. Nonetheless, the doctrine of election, the mystery that it is, is not shared between us.
 
evangelist6589

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
quantumfaith said:
No, I won't respond to your constant criticism of Andy Stanley. I have let you know, that I am glad to have him as a lead pastor. Nothing I could ever say would change your perspective. I think you are wrong...you think I am wrong...guess it will simply stay just like that.
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Ok. So sinners that are comfortable in their sin go to heaven. Thanks that answers my question.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
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agedman said:
Any convert a person produces is a "false convert."

If the Word of God and the Holy Spirit are not involved, the "convert" will not be a believer.

If the Word of God and the Holy Spirit are involved, the "convert" is "born from above" and the "preacher" is merely the witness to the conversion.

God never called us to "Win Souls."

When Christ gave the "great commission," He wasn't asking or requesting something be done. He states the commission as a fact that will happen. "You SHALL be witnesses..."

One of the great hallmarks of a believer is that they cannot keep from giving witness of Christ in their life. They will testify of the work of Christ both "in season and out of season."

As they witness of the Grace and Goodness of God, the salt of Scriptures will pepper their speech, and the Holy Spirit will take that Scripture to impact those around them - Some perhaps to salvation, others perhaps to confirm the condemnation.

Believers are witnesses - can't help but be witnesses - it is the command of God.
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:thumbs:
Amen......:thumbs:
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Rippon said:
Yes. The Lord has mercy on some and hardens others. Bottom line everyone is without excuse and they can't blame God at the Final Judgement.

No. There are not three categories of people --just two -the sheep and the goats. Folks go to everlasting perdition or Heaven. There is no mediating place.

God,in His sovereign will has decreed that they will not hear the Gospel --there are no "chances" or opportunities associated with His free-will.

Billy Graham and Robert Schuller agreed with each other about the "wideness of God's mercy" in the sense of God causing many who never hear the Gospel being saved after all. They agreed that whther they subscribed to Islam or Buddism or what have you --they were Christians whether they knew it or not.

However that is just directly opposed to Scripture. I hope that no one on the BB believes that devilish stuff.
Click to expand...

What do you do with a mentally deficient person who cant process the Bible Rippon.....send them to hell?
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
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evangelist6589 said:
Ok. So sinners that are comfortable in their sin go to heaven. Thanks that answers my question.
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If that statement were true you would be raising a generation of carnal Christians...ie false Christians...ie phoneys.

Go read George Whitefield's sermon titled "Method of Grace "....then if anyone is not ashamed of their own carnality, well then...lost case.
 
R

Rippon

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Earth said:
What do you do with a mentally deficient person who cant process the Bible Rippon.....send them to hell?
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What do I do? It's not up to me. God is the Righteous Judge. He does everything perfectly. I leave them in God's hands. It is pointless to speculate. There is only one God --He is the One with whom we must give account. I have no authority to ascertain things that are in the confines of Deut. 29:29. The Lord has revealed many things in Scripture --other things He has wisely left unsaid. I will leave it at that.
 
evangelist6589

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
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Earth said:
If that statement were true you would be raising a generation of carnal Christians...ie false Christians...ie phoneys.

Go read George Whitefield's sermon titled "Method of Grace "....then if anyone is not ashamed of their own carnality, well then...lost case.
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Dont tell me, he reads Andy Stanley.
 
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