Ariz. may require hospitals to check citizenship

[freeatlast]

It looks like Arizona political leaders has more guts and better sense then any other state in the union. Wake up Texas!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110215/ap_on_re_us/us_immigrants_hospitals

 

[Salty]

From the link: "This is making us into a police state" A police state - interesting because, if you do not subscribe to Obamacare you could go to jail - unless you are an illegal alien.

Salty

 

[freeatlast]

From the link: "This is making us into a police state" A police state - interesting because, if you do not subscribe to Obamacare you could go to jail - unless you are an illegal alien.

Salty

No we are already a police state because of this president as well as the former president. This is to save us from becoming a bankrupt state if texas would do it.

 

[Ruiz]

I would disobey this law if I were in the medical field. Just like when doing missions in our country, I am not concerned with whether you are here legally, I want to minister God's Word to you. A doctor should be concerned with the person too.

When I went to the hospital last month, the admissions person asked me "Are you hispanic?" This was a rather strange question. The lady told me they were required by Federal Regulations passed by the Obama Administration to ask that question (I am taking her word on this, I never independently confirmed this story). She was not required to ask if I was any other race, only if I was Hispanic. I do not mind telling her that I am, but she hated the question and felt it was racist at the core. I agree. Let hospitals care for people. Let Churches care for their soul. Yet, don't require me to ask someone their immigration status. I am not your immigration official.

What is next, you want me to wear a patch on my clothing saying that I am Hispanic and properly registered in our country?

I feel this would set a terrible precedent.

 

[billwald]

Tell people you are Chinese.

 

[mandym]

From the link: "This is making us into a police state" A police state - interesting because, if you do not subscribe to Obamacare you could go to jail - unless you are an illegal alien.

Salty

Very appropriate action.

 

[Salty]

Ruiz -

Yes, let the churches take care of the soul - salvation is of utmost importance. And who pays the salary of the pastor - those who give from the heart to spread the Gospel.

Now at the hospital - who is paying for the care of those without money. The taxpayer (thats me) - and I have no say so in the matter. Not only that, but often, a person who goes to the ER does not have a true emergency - but by going to ER - they are required to help him - on MY dime.

Now, if a person is sent to the ER for a true emergency - I have no problem what his background is in order to save life and limb, even if he is illegal. The problem is when someone - Latino or otherwise (could be Jim :smilewinkgrin:- a Canadian here illegally) just using the ER or even regularly health care on Medicaid. That is a big problem, that my kids and grandkids will be paying eons of years for. We must do something now before we become a 3rd world nation.
This is a big thing to me as I spend all day taking Medicaid patient to the hospital for regular appointments. Why don't they just take the bus - because when Medicaid gave them bus tokens - they often were lost or otherwise used. $$$$$

Right now, 2-3 times a week we are picking up a young man about 25 - not disable in any way- we take him to the clinic - 10 minutes later take him home. $60 one way - ie $120 round trip x 3 trips per week - you do the math.....

 

[carpro]

It looks like Arizona political leaders has more guts and better sense then any other state in the union. Wake up Texas!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110215/ap_on_re_us/us_immigrants_hospitals

It's about time!

Illegals are soaking up a lot of the free healthcare dollars meant for poor americans.

 

[Ruiz]

Ruiz -

Yes, let the churches take care of the soul - salvation is of utmost importance. And you pays the salary of the pastor - those who willing give to spread the gospel.

Now at the hospital - who is paying for the care of those without money. The taxpayer - and he has no say so in the matter. Not only that, but often, a person who goes to the ER does not have a true emergency - but by going to ER - they are required to help him - on MY dime.

Now, if a person is sent to the ER for a true emergency - I have no problem what his background is in order to save life and limb, even if he is illegal. The problem is when someone - Latino or otherwise (could be Jim :smilewinkgrin:- a Canadian here illegally) just using the ER or even regularly health care on Medicaid. That is a big problem, that my kids and grandkids will be paying eons of years for. We must do something now before we become a 3rd world nation.
This is a big thing to me as I spend all day taking Medicaid patient to the hospital for regular appointments. Why don't they just take the bus - because when Medicaid gave them bus tokens - they often were lost or otherwise use. $$$$$

Right 2-3 times a week we are picking up a young man about 25 - take him to the clinic - 10 minutes later take him home. $60 one way - ie $120 round trip x 3 trips per week - you do the math.....

I would still disobey the law. The role of a Doctor is not as an immigration officer. A hospital is a non-profit organization (ususally) and their goal is to care for people. Doctors are supposed to help people no matter what.

The USDA gives food to many rescue missions. WOuld you want them to ask people their immigration status before they serve food?

I would disobey if I were a Doctor because, money or not, I would be there to minister to them physically, not play law enforcement.

This is an immoral law requiring normal citizens to play the police. Sounds like this is closer to Nazism than the USA

 

[carpro]

I would disobey this law if I were in the medical field.

No problem as far as i'm concerned. I believe a person should stand by their principles.

But if I'm the hospital administrator, you'd be looking for a job. :smilewinkgrin:

Take a stand with your own money, not the tax dollars meant to help Americans.

 

[Ruiz]

No problem as far as i'm concerned. I believe a person should stand by their principles.

But if I'm the hospital administrator, you'd be looking for a job. :smilewinkgrin:

Take a stand with your own money, not the tax dollars meant to help Americans.

That would be your right. And you would be morally wrong as well. When you put a litmus on immigration status and health care, you have drawn a line that only cares for people if they are here legally.

I am not against government enforcing their own laws, but don't make me enforce them for you. We should be concerned, as Christians, for their soul and their health, not their immigration status. When we are more concerned for their status than their health and soul, we have failed society.

 

[carpro]

That would be your right. And you would be morally wrong as well.

And I'd take advantage of that right.

Since when is obeying the law "morally wrong" ?

Is it any more "morally wrong" than misusing public funds?

 

[mandym]

You can't place some sort of equivalence on one's health to their spiritual condition. And if they are here illegally it would be difficult to minister to them spiritually without encouraging them to repent of their illegal activity whether it is drug use of illegal immigration. To simply ignore it would be to overlook their need to repent toward God.

 

[Ruiz]

And I'd take advantage of that right.

Since when is obeying the law "morally wrong" ?

Is it any more "morally wrong" than misusing public funds?

It is morally wrong to ask me to play police officer and use needed things like food, medicine, or spiritual help.. and the confidentiality of a Doctor, against people. This law itself is immoral and oversteps the role of government. Government has no right to demand that I ask a patient questions outside the realm of my normal care to patients.

The Funds given to hospitals is not just for United States Citizens. It is used by non-profits for the help of people. There is no misappropriations of those funds at all as they are not allocated discriminately.

I would be for getting government out of financing charity.

Finally, answer the question. Most Rescue Missions get food from the USDA. Are you for requiring them to ask for the immigration status of people before feeding them food? Do you think that is appropriate?

I think this is highly immoral to ask a Doctor to play a law enforcer. My job would be to care for the person first and ensure they are cared for... essentially to love my neighbor.

God commanded us to love our neighbor as ourself. He told us to care for such people like the Samaritan cared. Some people cross over to the other side of the street, others want to call the police, but I love the Samaritan who just reaches out and cares for the person. I think the Good Samaritan wouldn't care about the immigration status on the person, but would just care for the person... enough to violate Jewish law of that day to care for a neighbor.

 

[sag38]

I guess that in Ruiz's world, (not saying he's a progressive) and in the world of progressives, money grows on trees, so no problem providing medical care to any body and everybody. Boy, I wish I lived in that world too, but unfortunately I live in reality. Otherwise I wouldn't have a $5,000.00 hospital bill hanging around my neck right now due to emergency medical treatment for my son. .

 

[Ruiz]

You can't place some sort of equivalence on one's health to their spiritual condition. And if they are here illegally it would be difficult to minister to them spiritually without encouraging them to repent of their illegal activity whether it is drug use of illegal immigration. To simply ignore it would be to overlook their need to repent toward God.

Mandym,

I do teach people to obey the laws of the land. One person I know who ministers to hispanics is clear on that point. However, he is not there to force people to obey or he will turn them in. He is there to minister God's Word to them.

Personally, the laws of our land should be lifted on this entire immigration issue. I am thankful that my mother was able to come here legally and without much difficulty at all. Today, we don't really care for many people and have so limited our immigration that we have communicated, "We don't care for you, only if you have something to truly offer us." I think we should say, "Come, for we care for you and we know you have much to offer us but first we want to offer you our love and care."

 

[Salty]

That would be your right. And you would be morally wrong as well. When you put a litmus on immigration status and health care, you have drawn a line that only cares for people if they are here legally.

It is immoral to be stealing from others. The litmus should not be just based on legal status.

I am not against government enforcing their own laws, but don't make me enforce them for you. ...When we are more concerned for their status than their health and soul, we have failed society.

So if you were an employer, would you refuse to have your employees fill out an I-9 (form to prove employment authorization in US)

As I states before - to save life or limb - no problem - but much of the "health care" is for routine medical services - and some could even be "first/self aid"

I would still disobey the law. The role of a Doctor is not as an immigration officer. A hospital is a non-profit organization (ususally) and their goal is to care for people. Doctors are supposed to help people no matter what.

and if it were your hospital using your funds or funds collected by you, from individuals who knew you were treating illegals - I would not have a problem.

I would be there to minister to them physically, not play law enforcement.

So if a woman came in with multiple bruises, and in your professional opinion, you know it was her husband beating her -(again) and she pleaded for you not to inform the police - you would abide by her request?

This is an immoral law requiring normal citizens to play the police. Sounds like this is closer to Nazism than the USA

This sounds like the United States protecting me from a fiscal invasion

 

[Ruiz]

I guess that in Ruiz's world, (not saying he's a progressive) and in the world of progressives, money grows on trees, so no problem providing medical care to any body and everybody. Boy, I wish I lived in that world too, but unfortunately I live in reality. Otherwise I wouldn't have a $5,000.00 hospital bill hanging around my neck right now due to emergency medical treatment for my son. .

Sag,

I know money doesn't grow on trees. I have studied economics and enjoy the world of economics. that is the the point here, the point is whether we will allow Doctors to care for his patients. As noted before, I want the government out of the medical field along with their subsidies. They are the problem, not the solution.

As well, I am not a progressive. I have never voted for a Democrat for President ever. I thought Bush was too liberal on economic and many social policies. I hold to Austrian Economics, thus, I am very conservative fiscally and very conservative theologically.

This issue, however, the Republicans are wrong. They need to stick to limited government and let Doctors be Doctors.

 

[carpro]

It is morally wrong to ask me to play police officer and use needed things like food, medicine, or spiritual help.. and the confidentiality of a Doctor, against people. This law itself is immoral and oversteps the role of government. Government has no right to demand that I ask a patient questions outside the realm of my normal care to patients.

No problem. You're fired. :wavey:

Funny how many things become "morally wrong" when they don't suit your personal agenda.

Myself, I wouldn't keep a morrally corrupt employee like you on the payroll...

See how easy that was. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[mandym]

Mandym,

I do teach people to obey the laws of the land. One person I know who ministers to hispanics is clear on that point. However, he is not there to force people to obey or he will turn them in. He is there to minister God's Word to them.

If they were a murderer would you turn them in?