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Arminianism and Calvinism part 2
- Thread starter MennoSota
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The Bible says no one seeks God. You say they do. You are making the Bible to be a liar.
Yes, 3,000 years ago a verse written about pagans says they don't seek God. I believe it.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Ever heard of a figure of speech?
Luke 14
25Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, 26“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
I don't think you went off and killed your family have you? Jacob took priority.
Here is the bottom line you can't sin in heaven only the pure can enter heaven.
Is there going to be a moment when you stop sinning and are made pure?
You realize that all who do not know God are pagans...don't you?
Do you imagine you can reach sinless perfection by your own merit? That is the message you are preaching. Your gospel is no gospel at all. You are promoting what Paul called anathema in Galatians.
Indeed. If he knew WWII history and the efforts of Calvinists to save Jews from being destroyed by the Nazi's, perhaps he would recant.
Sadly, he does not.
On their side of the debate, they continually redefine the word of God to fit their ideologies...
--hate does not mean hate, only loves less. So, God loves Satan less than us.
--dead does not mean corpse, just separation. So, we have not passed from death unto life, but life unto more life. Plus, when we are saved, we are not spiritually resurrected, because a living soul can not be resurrected.
There are many others he would have to deny also to be consistant.
Romans 8:7 and Romans 5:10 come to mind.
Romans 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is hostile towards God; for it is not subject to God’s law, neither indeed can it be.
Romans 5:10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we will be saved by his life.
1 Corinthians 2:14 Now the natural man doesn’t receive the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can’t know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So, who does this guy seek? The one he is hostile toward? The one he is not subject to? The one he cannot be subject to? His enemy? The one he doesn't receive. The one he considers foolish? The one he can't know?
Uh huh. Sure.
By using his (il)logic, it would be like a Jew in WWII Germany seeking Hitler to worship.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
The King James uses the word "ordained". And notice that Acts 13:48 doesn't say who "ordained" these Gentiles. Very important.........
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
I have found that around the time the King James Bible was published, the word "ordained" was sometimes used to describe when a person has"ordered" himself to a state of being. Apparently the word meant "disposed to", "established to" or "ordered to". See The Canterbury Tales
Also observe that the word "ordained", as used in Acts 13:48, came from the Greek word "tasso". The same Greek word "tasso" is translated as "addicted" in 1 Corinthians.......
1 Corinthians 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)
What does it mean? The Gentiles who "believed" "gladly"did so because they already longed for eternal life. Is that feasible? Well, the Egypitians, for example, embalmed their dead for the afterlife. Many other gentile groups beleived in an afterlife as well. Today, we have suicide bombers killing themselves for "paradise" with "Allah"(sadly going to Hell). I'm just saying that those Acts 13:48 gentiles who already looked forward to an afterlife, were the ones glad when they heard the Gospel.
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All these words to say what the bible does not say. So, if God did not ordain them, they ordained themselves.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Yes sir. You are correct. the Bible does NOT say that God ordained them; read it for your self.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
Yes sir. For example; the hijackers on 911 had so "ordered" their lives to their false concept of and afterlife, they were willing to kill themselves for it. But you won't understand that if you don't understand what the word "ordained" once meant.
τεταγμενοι - appointed. To appoint or set. The word is a
verb in the perfect tense, passive voice, nominative plural.
So, it could not be something they did to themselves, but it had to be something that was done to them (passive voice).
The very first principle of bible study I learned in Sunday School about 70 years ago is that "a text out of context is a pretext.
The context could not be clearer.
Acts 13:47 For so has the Lord commanded us, saying, ‘I have set you as a light for the Gentiles, that you should bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth.’”
48 As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Act 13:49 The Lord’s word was spread abroad throughout all the region.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
The Greek word is "tasso"
τάσσω tássō, tas'-so; a prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot):—addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
And they preached to the Jews first, but the majority of the Jews,after hearing the Gospel preached, rejected the Gospel of their own volition. So they turned and preached it to the Gentiles. That is the context.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
τάσσω tássō, tas'-so; a prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot):—addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
And they preached to the Jews first, but the majority of the Jews,after hearing the Gospel preached, rejected the Gospel of their own volition. So they turned and preached it to the Gentiles. That is the context.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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