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Arminianism and Calvinism part 2

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utilyan

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Why are you still in this thread, utilyan? I rebuked you and you went away! You have said that you are neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist. This is a debate forum for them. Are you really that ignorant? All of your arguments were refuted by many posters. It's a real shame. You don't have the self-control to ignore new posts that criticize what you have said. You have nothing new to say! (My challenge is to real Arminians). Go somewhere else! Find a place where you'd really feel at home.

John Calvin believes in Infant Baptism along with hereditary election. You can read that in institutes.

I suppose John Calvin is good a Calvinist as any.

If you don't believe in infant baptism, then you must not be a real Calvinist.

The board says "all Christians" The subject is Calvinism & Armenian debate.
Beer vs Vodka, Dumb vs Dumber, Armenian Vs Calvinist. Hey you get my 2 cents.
 

utilyan

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I predict that he/she never will address them. People don't want to address scripture that does not support their view.

Amen to all scripture. I love the word of the Lord. I do not disagree with any single one of those verse.

None tells us of God declaring "that all Mankind deserves hell".

Your license to sin has been revoked, stop judging others.
 

Reformed

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John Calvin believes in Infant Baptism along with hereditary election. You can read that in institutes.

I suppose John Calvin is good a Calvinist as any.

If you don't believe in infant baptism, then you must not be a real Calvinist.

The board says "all Christians" The subject is Calvinism & Armenian debate.
Beer vs Vodka, Dumb vs Dumber, Armenian Vs Calvinist. Hey you get my 2 cents.
The term "Calvinist" has become ubiquitous with the Reformed view of predestination and election. It is no more than that. Some Calvinists prefer to be called Monergists because it takes the baggage out of the term Calvinist. The term does not bother me since I know what I believe.
 

MennoSota

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Bit of a strawman.....

That's easy.

29Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’


You have to love God, forced or done for you is not love at all.


I consider all of you brothers and sisters.




I'm not factious <-- never left any faith, All for unity.



15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18“Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.


I know God is your father who loves you and you will always have a Father in heaven.

The video you shared about Catholics, I wouldn't even agree to those things, makes me want to walk outside and throw a tomato at myself. It was a gross misrepresentation.

I don't need a misrepresentation to disagree with you. I don't need any vilifying painting to disagree. All I have to do is learn exactly what you say you believe, exactly how you say it.

If A = B and B=C you will get a challenged that A = C. Example folks say everyone is totally depraved, then a moment later claim their hearts get hardened, Then you get a challenge from me If someone is totally depraved there couldn't possibly be anything there to harden being that it began totally harden.




"Titus 3:9-11New American Standard Bible (NASB)

9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

This requires judgment."

No he even tells you, they are self-condemned.

I recommend looking up that word "factious" Its the person quick to cut ties, quick to enter combativeness, they always say its US vs THEM. My attitude is its us for us. If I disliked any of you I wouldn't be here.


I say AMEN to all the scripture you quoted. Not one of them gives me the right to judge you deserving hell, not even deserving lesser suffering.

1 John 4

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

To Judge as in Discernment, thats fine, or even if a person comes to the humility of repentance to the point they believe themselves deserving hell, thats a good imperfect start. But to lay claim to the FINAL judgement which is God's alone overriding and going over God's head as to set the "standard" of who deserves what of who even deserves to be born, deserves to exist, deserves hell. That is a power absolute opinionated word: "DESERVES"

Let me tell you anyone who "DESERVES" hell doesn't "DESERVE" the right to say who "DESERVES" What or NOT!

That is a Judgement on your soul. Reserved to God alone.

You want me to believe YOU deserve hell? Not even if the whole world hates you, Not even if you slaughtered everyone I loved.

Don' be selfish thinking about yourself.

Jesus Christ deserves more glory why deny him one more voice. Does Jesus deserve less folks in heaven? One less "thank you"? One less family? One more reminder of hatred or one more of love?


You don't have the grounds to make the judgement call. This condemnation of other is simply shooting yourself in the foot.

Its like if someone swears they don't deserve to have a head how come they still believe I deserve to hear them run their mouth? Isn't the mouth gone along with the head?

So...where are the verses that support free will?
Your first verse is addressed to Israel. Your second passage is addressed to church discipline. The third is in regard to avoiding foolish arguments dealing with genealogy.
I'm waiting for verses supporting free will in regard to salvation.
 

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
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free will
noun
1.
free and independent choice; voluntary decision:
You took on the responsibility of your own free will.
2.
Philosophy. the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces.
Both 1 & 2 are wrong in a Theological context. "Free will" has nothing to do with making decisions or making choices. Everybody makes decisions and makes choices every day. (This type of post is either a straw man to divert the discussion away from gross theological error or a monumental display of ignorance regarding the theological meaning of "free will.")

"Free will" means that the will of a lost person is NOT in bondage to the Law of Sin and Death. And to say that is to contradict the bible. Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

To deny that the lost person is in bondage to the law of sin and death is to deny the need for a Savior to make us free from that bondage.
 

InTheLight

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It's not a Calvinist assertion, it's what the Bible teaches.

Romans 3:10-17New International Version (NIV)

10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.

Verse in Romans is quoting Psalm 14:2 which is describing the pagan nations surrounding Israel 3,000 years ago.

The idea that no one seeks God is empiracly false as churches are full of people doing so every Sunday.

The apostle Paul also disagrees with you.

From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.
Acts 17:26‭-‬27 NIV




Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
 
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MennoSota

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Verse in Romans is quoting Psalm 14:2 which is describing the pagan nations surrounding Israel 3,000 years ago.

The idea that no one seeks God is empiracly false as churches are full of people doing so every Sunday.

The apostle Paul also disagrees with you.

From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.
Acts 17:26‭-‬27 NIV




Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
The verses you quoted from Acts 17 actually support Romans 3 that no one seeks God. My bet is you cannot possibly see how Paul is expressing himself in Acts 17 so that his quote in Romans 3 is perfectly in alignment.

Notice how Paul states that God appointed times and boundaries. God does this and appoints who will seek Him and who will find Him. All of this is ordained by God.
 

InTheLight

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The verses you quoted from Acts 17 actually support Romans 3 that no one seeks God.

Laughable interpretation. Only in the mind of a Calvinist clinging to TULIP could someone say that a verse stating men seek God means that they don't actually seek him.

I'll have to add this to my Calvinist Dictionary.

Thank you.


Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
 

MennoSota

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Laughable interpretation. Only in the mind of a Calvinist clinging to TULIP could someone say that a verse stating men seek God means that they don't actually seek him.

I'll have to add this to my Calvinist Dictionary.

Thank you.


Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
You must live in deNile. [emoji41]
It's apparently convenient for you to ignore Paul's discussion about God appointing times...
 

InTheLight

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You must live in deNile. [emoji41]
Verse plainly says God placed people in locations and times so that they might seek him, perhaps reach out for him. Some translations say, "perhaps might grope for him and find him." Clearly God determined where and when these people lived. But they did the seeking based on this placement. Unless you think "perhaps grope" and "might find" is your definition of God determining something!

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
 

MennoSota

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Verse plainly says God placed people in locations and times so that they might seek him, perhaps reach out for him. Some translations say, "perhaps might grope for him and find him." Clearly God determined where and when these people lived. But they did the seeking based on this placement. Unless you think "perhaps grope" and "might find" is your definition of God determining something!

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
I'm not sure how you miss God's sovereign choice in these verses. Let me highlight so as to make it simple for you.

..."having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
that they should seek God"...

What about God determining do you fail to understand?
 

Reynolds

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Laughable interpretation. Only in the mind of a Calvinist clinging to TULIP could someone say that a verse stating men seek God means that they don't actually seek him.

I'll have to add this to my Calvinist Dictionary.

Thank you.


Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
I wish I had a Calvinist dictionary. Every term seems to mean something different to each Calvinist you discuss it with.
 

MennoSota

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I wish I had a Calvinist dictionary. Every term seems to mean something different to each Calvinist you discuss it with.
I'm not sure how you miss God's sovereign choice in these verses. Let me highlight so as to make it simple for you.

..."having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
that they should seek God"...

What about God determining do you fail to understand?
 

utilyan

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So...where are the verses that support free will?
Your first verse is addressed to Israel. Your second passage is addressed to church discipline. The third is in regard to avoiding foolish arguments dealing with genealogy.
I'm waiting for verses supporting free will in regard to salvation.

Love can only exist in the arena of free will.

God sticking his hand up your nose and working you like a puppet is not you loving God with all your heart, mind and soul.
 

MennoSota

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Love can only exist in the arena of free will.

God sticking his hand up your nose and working you like a puppet is not you loving God with all your heart, mind and soul.
Where do you find that in the Bible oh philosopher of man?

You are such a man-centered thinker, utilyan.
 

InTheLight

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I'm not sure how you miss God's sovereign choice in these verses. Let me highlight so as to make it simple for you.

..."having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
that they should seek God"...

You're butchering the verse. Is this the NLT you're quoting again?



What about God determining do you fail to understand?

Why do you enjoy question begging?

What part of "if", "perhaps", "might" expresses the idea that God determined something?

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
 

MennoSota

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You're butchering the verse. Is this the NLT you're quoting again?





Why do you enjoy question begging?

What part of "if", "perhaps", "might" expresses the idea that God determined something?

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
I quoted both NLT and ESV. Both emphasize God determining those who seek.
You seem to either be naturally blind to what God is saying or openly defying what God is saying.
 

InTheLight

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I quoted both NLT and ESV. Both emphasize God determining those who seek.
You seem to either be naturally blind to what God is saying or openly defying what God is saying.
No, you lack reading comprehension.

If
Might
Perhaps

Do not mean something was predetermined. It's very simple.

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MennoSota

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No, you lack reading comprehension.

If
Might
Perhaps

Do not mean something was predetermined. It's very simple.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
..."having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,
that they should seek God"...

Where is the if, might or perhaps?

Could it be that you want it to be a question so that you can claim sovereignty over God?
 
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