Arminianism and Calvinism part 2

[utilyan]

You must not read the bible, a verse you say? How about two, there are many.

Romans 3:10:11 "as it is written, there is no one that is righteous, no not ONE, there is NNE who understands, NNE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD, ALL have turned away, they have become altogether worthless...

Now if NNE IS GOOD, NO NOT EVEN ONE, and the REQUIREMENT for Heaven is perfect righteousness (The Reason our Savior came, to live a perfect life for us), then we all deserve Hell, for we sure aren't going to Heaven UNLESS something happens, and that is an act of grace.

Romans 5:12 "just as sin entered the world through one man, and DEATH FROM SIN, and in this way death came to all people, for ALL HAVE SINNED".

Why does every human die? It's a JUDGEMENT FOR SIN. Unless your perfect and live forever, you are under God's curse. Once again there is only one solution, a substitute to SAVE US FROM HELL, Jesus is our Savior HOW? To teach us a good life? No, He came to save the elect from Hell.

This is the most basic Sunday School 101 topics. To my brothers out there my heart goes out to you, you have great patience putting up with this.

We are commanded by Christ:

37“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.

So I don't judge or condemn anyone "deserving hell".

Even if you had a piece of scripture that matter of fact sends everyone to hell, that still doesn't qualify me as judging and condemning all mankind to "deserve hell".

I am not even allowed to Judge or condemn a person as to even deserving a slap on the wrist, how do you expect me to declare they deserve hell?


Romans 2

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

There isn't a worst judgement I can pass then believing you deserve hell.


Romans 10

6But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILLASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”


You see I don't have a right to judge you.


8But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.



I am not even allowed to Judge or condemn a person as to even MENTALLY deserving a slap on the wrist, how do you expect me to declare they deserve hell?

 

[Yeshua1]

We are commanded by Christ:

37“Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned.

So I don't judge or condemn anyone "deserving hell".

Even if you had a piece of scripture that matter of fact sends everyone to hell, that still doesn't qualify me as judging and condemning all mankind to "deserve hell".

I am not even allowed to Judge or condemn a person as to even deserving a slap on the wrist, how do you expect me to declare they deserve hell?


Romans 2

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

There isn't a worst judgement I can pass then believing you deserve hell.


Romans 10

6But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILLASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”


You see I don't have a right to judge you.


8But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.



I am not even allowed to Judge or condemn a person as to even MENTALLY deserving a slap on the wrist, how do you expect me to declare they deserve hell?

ALL apart from being saved in jesus deserve hell, as you and I both did!

 

[MennoSota]

ALL apart from being saved in jesus deserve hell, as you and I both did!

That's not us "judging." That's just biblical.
What I find interesting is the complete butchering of Jesus comments about judgment by utilyan.

 

[utilyan]

That's not us "judging." That's just biblical.
What I find interesting is the complete butchering of Jesus comments about judgment by utilyan.

Going to hell is a sin itself too. You don't DESERVE TO SIN. God commands not to sin.


Your problem is you think of sin as a perk rather then a penalty in itself.

You don't have a license to sin nor do you deserve to sin.


John 8

3The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5“Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

Even the pharisees believed this woman deserved to be stoned that is less then deserving hell and Jesus Christ stopped them, she did not even deserve being accused.

You can't even convince me someone deserves a stoning how you going to convince me they deserve hell?

 

[MennoSota]

Going to hell is a sin itself too. You don't DESERVE TO SIN. God commands not to sin.

Your problem is you think of sin as a perk rather then a penalty in itself.

You don't have a license to sin nor do you deserve to sin.

You can't even convince me someone deserves a stoning how you going to convince me they deserve hell?

LOL, I have never met such a great butcher as you, utilyan.
I literally cannot fathom the planet you live on that makes cuts like you do.
Bravo! You have entered Jim Jones territory with your bible commentary.
When do you plan on serving Kool-aid?

 

[utilyan]

If you were totally depraved there would be nothing there to save and as likely to be save as a rock

LOL, I have never met such a great butcher as you, utilyan.
I literally cannot fathom the planet you live on that makes cuts like you do.
Bravo! You have entered Jim Jones territory with your bible commentary.

If you were totally depraved as so deserving hell there would be nothing there to save and as likely to be save as a rock or chunk of mud.

All you had to do is find a verse where God says all mankind deserve hell. You have failed. And thank you for conceding earlier that verse DOES NOT EXIST.

We don't need unbiblical lies.

 

[MennoSota]

If you were totally depraved there would be nothing there to save and as likely to be save as a rock


If you were totally depraved as so deserving hell there would be nothing there to save and as likely to be save as a rock or chunk of mud.

All you had to do is find a verse where God says all mankind deserve hell. You have failed. And thank you for conceding earlier that verse DOES NOT EXIST.

We don't need unbiblical lies.

.

 

[utilyan]

John 3
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

Everyone deserves the love of God which sent his son. I'm showing biblical proof of that declaration.

Satan doesn't love the scriptures and whole heatedly agrees everyone deserves hell.

 

[utilyan]

.

 

[MennoSota]

Real classy.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

Thanks

 

[SovereignGrace]

Real classy.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

No. This is classy...

 

[evangelist6589]

Your topic is built on a false premise and not worthy to discuss.

Basically a strawman.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

You heard the man in his next post. Do you have anything of value too contribute to this thread?

 

[InTheLight]

You heard the man in his next post. Do you have anything of value too contribute to this thread?

Sarcasm is a big part of my service.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Mr. Davis]

Either all sinners are spiritual dead, and only God can wake them up, or else all sinners are spiritual dead, and yet still have the mneans to wake themselves up!

Absolutely right! They are DEAD spiritually; only God can "quicken" them (provide the new birth in which God can then give them faith).

 

[utilyan]

Matthew 10
29“Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yetnot one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30“But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31“So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.


Matthew 6
26“Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?

Luke 12
24“Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap; they have no storeroom nor barn, and yetGod feeds them; how much more valuable you are than the birds!

Calvinist Response: Jesus is a Liar, Mankind is worthless even deserves hell.

 

[MennoSota]

Calvinist response:
Thank you God for creating me and redeeming your children. Your care for us is amazing.
We have sinned and are justly condemned, yet you choose not to immediately send us to hell. Instead, you let us live as you call your chosen people out and redeem them. Thank you, God.

 

[Mr. Davis]

Matthew 10 Calvinist Response: Jesus is a Liar, Mankind is worthless even deserves hell.

Jesus is NOT a liar! Man is so valuable to Him that he died so that we would be saved by His measureless Grace! We could NEVER save ourselves as the Arminians, like YOU, say!

 

[utilyan]

Jesus is NOT a liar! Man is so valuable to Him that he died so that we would be saved by His measureless Grace! We could NEVER save ourselves as the Arminians, like YOU, say!

whats an arminian? sounds like another Calvinist made up word. I'm just christian.

"Man is so valuable to Him that he died "

No further questions, thank you for backing me up. =)

 

[Mr. Davis]

whats an arminian? sounds like another Calvinist made up word. I'm just christian.

"Man is so valuable to Him that he died "

No further questions, thank you for backing me up. =)

NOT backing YOU UP! Look up the theological definition of the word "Arminian." It is a religious system OPPOSED to God working ALONE to bring a sinner to salvation. YOU Arminians believe one must earn salvation by meritorious works. Thank God for His Great Mercy and Grace! He looks on the heart; that's why Calvinists and Arminians that love Him will both be in Heaven.

 

[utilyan]

NOT backing YOU UP! Look up the theological definition of the word "Arminian." It is a religious system OPPOSED to God working ALONE to bring a sinner to salvation. YOU Arminians believe one must earn salvation by meritorious works. Thank God for His Great Mercy and Grace! He looks on the heart; that's why Calvinists and Arminians that love Him will both be in Heaven.

I don't believe anyone can earn salvation.

Look up Calvinist or Armenian from the bible its not in there that is a new idea that came up in the 1500's.

I'd flip it right back and say Calvinist believe they earn salvation by election, Much like how Nazis believe they are chosen and Jews are damned.

Same Nazi Theology, it doesn't matter what you do as long as your a fellow chosen NAZI you are saved and if your a reprobate Jew.......oh well thats how God picks them. As Long as HITLER-GOD picks you for salvation then you are saved.

Spiritual Nazis, Pharisees, Calvinist. All in the same boat with their religious fascism.


You got the exact same mindset as Pharisee the only difference is you took off a Jehovah T-shirt and put on a Jesus T-Shirt. Differ Brand name.

Luke 18

9And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11“The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13“But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

15And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. 16But Jesus called for them, saying, “Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17“Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.”


"people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:"
^Calvinist fit the bill.


"“But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’"

This guy isn't even sure he is forgiven. Not a peep about being already regenerated and chosen, so how is he justified?


Show me scripture that proves you are elect. Sounds like you are SELF-PROCLAIMED.

Tell me about when God parted the sky walked down face to face and told you that you are elect.

You don't even have half the joy if that were true.