As a ‘Calvinist’, How did you come to believe?

[Van]

I had a choice, believe in the TULIP or believe in the Bible, but since they are irreconcilable, I could not see how to believe in both.

 

[Piper]

Do you know what I'm referring to?

I think so. It is just funny how you worded it. Sounds like a C. S. Lewis quote.

 

[Alan Gross]

My story is a very long and rambling one,so I'll condense it a bit.
I wasn't raiseed in what I would call today a Christian home, though my mother was diligent to have me 'christened into the Church of England. Growing up, I was taught evolution as a fact at school, but I could never understand how the Universe could come about from nothing, so there had to be a God.. However, nor could i understand what Jesus was for: there was God, there was I; I would live an OK sort of life and He would let me into heaven. Why did I need Jesus?
When I went to University, people from the Christian Union were diligent to tell me how much Jesus loved me, and I was always happy to hear it, but I still didn't really know what difference that made.
So I got married and had children, and Mrs Marprelate thought they should go to Sunday School. So we sent them to the local Free Church (sort of Plymouth Brethren) and once a month or so there would be a 'family service' when all the little kids would come along and sing a nice song, and we would go along to smile at our little ones. At the church I was impressed by 2 or 3 older guys who seemed to have a real relationship with Jesus which I envied but didn't understand.
Then we were invited to join a Bible Study and I came to understand a little more, and I really liked the idea of being a Christian, so I prayed a 'sinner's prayer and everyone rejoiced and that seemed to be that.
Then, after a few months, because I hadn't killed anyone or committed adultery, Mrs M and I were asked if we wanted to undergo elievers' Baptism. After a little hesitation (hadn't I beeen baptized already?) we agreed and a date was set. At the baptism, we were supposed to say how wonderful it was to be a Christian and how our lives had changed. As I thought about what I would say, I realised that actually I hadn't changed at all; all the sins that I'd had before were still wwith me, and I had just added a veneer of Christianity to my old life. I was desperately convicted of my sin. It was at that point that I went down on my knees before God and confesssed that I was a sinner, and understood what Jesus had come to do. Irepented of my sins and trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ, in His finished work upon the cross to save me.
It is from that point that I measure my Christian life. I was 38 years old. That's how I became a Christian; if you want to know how I became a Calvinist, you'll have to wait for the next installment..

I was desperately convicted of my sin. It was at that point that I went down on my knees before God and confesssed that I was a sinner, and understood what Jesus had come to do. Irepented of my sins and trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ, in His finished work upon the cross to save me.
It is from that point that I measure my Christian life. I was 38 years old. That's how I became a Christian;

 

[Alan Gross]

Well first of all when I was very young I have a recollection of having my picture taking with my three siblings standing in front of Kingdom Hall in San Diego, CA... There were nine in my Dads family and he being the youngest, when his brother from Texas got wind of it, he called a friend of his a Primitive Baptist in San Diego... All Dads three brothers, plus his five sisters, were raised in the Primitive Baptist Church in Texas and said, pay a visit to my brother and get him out of that mess... And at the age of seven, I remember my folks joining the Little Bethany Primitive Baptist Church in San Diego, CA... We rented a building until we put up our own church... I also remember putting tiles on the roof of the new church building we put with my Dad at the age of twelve in 1958... So I was basically brought up in church, along with my siblings, me being the oldest... I heard the PB's definition of T.U.L.I.P it's ALL of God... Man is Totally Depraved and his Salvation is ALL of Grace... That is the message I heard from every preacher, that graced our pulpit, from the age of seven... At the age of 18, I joined The Marine Corp and in May of 1965 did my 13 month tour in Vietnam and returned home, in 1966 and in 1968, I joined the church, making me 3rd generation PB... All of my fellow PB's will agree, just because we believe in T.U.L.I.P, doesn't make us Calvinist!... I believe totally in the Sovereign Grace of almighty God, ALONE!... Brother Glen

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Man is Totally Depraved and his Salvation is ALL of Grace..

I believe totally in the Sovereign Grace of almighty God, ALONE!.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Alan Gross]

Sure...
In May of 1978 I was "invited" ( read, " My parents took me.." ) to a "revival meeting" at a Baptist church about 7 miles from my house. The longer I heard His words read aloud, the more I believed, and I believed on Christ as both Lord and Saviour the first night.

Please keep in mind that my attention was not captured by the plaintive words of the preacher ( he was preaching the usual " make a decision-for-Christ" way that I have come to see in so many places, especially nowadays )...
I was captivated by God's words, read out of the Bible itself.


That is the best way that I can describe it.

The longer I heard His words read aloud, the more I believed, and I believed on Christ as both Lord and Saviour the first night.

I was captivated by God's words, read out of the Bible itself.

 

[Alan Gross]

I guess I should share, but how to keep it PG.

So experientially, how did God save me. I started out bad … like thief on the cross (the other one), “give us Barabas”, almost emperor Nero “bad”. Bad enough to be actively preparing a ‘Columbine’ scale murder-suicide bad.

Then one day God appeared (not too unlike the “road to Damascus”) and told me that He claimed me and had a simple offer. An exchange of everything that I had for everything that He had. From that moment forward, the death that I had planned belonged to Him and the life that He had planned belonged to me. The poverty that surrounded me belonged to Him and everything that I needed would be supplied from His wealth. The despair of my past was replaced by the hope of His future.

The reality of encountering God is quite a profound shock to the worldview of a devout atheist. God had made me an offer that I could not refuse … so I accepted. Everything was changed in an instant and I had no words … no vocabulary of empirical frame of reference with which to explain it to anyone (even myself).

Then because God has an incredible sense of humor, He sent me to be tutored in the Bible, hermeneutics and basic theology at a Wesleyan Holiness Church (where I was loved) and to be instructed by a missionary FROM Africa that was sent to reach the unsaved in the United States.

I could never reconcile Wesleyan theology with the empirical reality of my personal salvation. I never sought God. I never wanted to be saved from my sins. I never responded to any alter call. I was not baptized for almost two decades after God claimed and transformed me (the subject never really came up).

So it was reading the Bible and studying Wesleyan Holiness theology that I stumbled across 4 truths that agreed with Scripture and experience:

1. People are no darn good. (T)
2. God does as He pleases, just because He wants to. (U)
3. God does not try, God does. (I)
4. God finishes what He starts (P)

Years later, at another church, I learned that these truths had a name … I was a 4 point Calvinist (who had never heard of Calvinism or Arminianism). I had no opinion on Limited Atonement because it had never occurred to me to even ask who else Jesus had died for … I was always just content that He had died for me.

1. People are no darn good. (T)
2. God does as He pleases, just because He wants to. (U)
3. God does not try, God does. (I)
4. God finishes what He starts (P)

Years later, at another church, I learned that these truths had a name … I was a 4 point Calvinist (who had never heard of Calvinism or Arminianism). I had no opinion on Limited Atonement because it had never occurred to me to even ask who else Jesus had died for … I was always just content that He had died for me.

 

[Alan Gross]

redneck is busy plucking verses out of context again to deny justification by faith alone. Ever unwilling to accept that God justifies us by Jesus shed blood, via the faith given to us by God, so that this very faith will do the works that God has ordained us to do.
It's all in Christ alone. But, redneck will have none of it, despite claiming to be a monergist.

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2

These have to do with, "being Justified", BEFORE MEN.

The others are justification by faith alone, FOR SALVATION,
through JESUS and HIS BLOOD, as they say.

 

[Alan Gross]

Ephesians 2:1-9 KJV
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath,
even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,
(by grace ye are saved and hath raised us up together,
and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace
in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
not of works, lest any man should boast

 

[Alan Gross]

I had a choice, believe in the TULIP or believe in the Bible, but since they are irreconcilable, I could not see how to believe in both.

Did you have a testimony of conversion you would like to share?

Does it agree with the following?

from http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF Books II/Simmons - A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine.pdf

(1) Conversion Involves Turning From Sin, and Man By Nature Is Unable To Do This.

Man by nature is able to reform his life to some extent. He can turn from some forms of sin.

But he is unable by nature to change the governing disposition of his nature.

This is proved by Jer. 13: 23, which reads: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good that are accustomed to do evil."

The sinner is accustomed to do evil. Therefore it is impossible for him to turn from evil (or sin) until his governing disposition is changed. This is just as impossible as it is for the blackest Negro to make himself white, or the leopard to divest himself of his spotted robe.

(2) Conversion is Pleasing to God, and the Natural Man Cannot Please God.

No one can doubt the first part of the above statement.

The last part is proved by Rom. 8:8, which says: "They that are in the flesh cannot please God."

This includes all to whom God has not given a new nature.

(3) Conversion is a Good Thing, and no Good Thing Can Proceed from the Natural Heart.

Paul said that there was no good thing in his fleshly nature (Rom. 7:18).

This is the only nature man has until God gives him a new one.

And since no good can come out of that in which no good exists,
conversion cannot proceed from the fleshly nature.

Therefore the giving of the new nature, or quickening, must come before conversion.

To affirm otherwise is to deny total depravity,
which means that sin has permeated every part of man's being
and poisoned every faculty, leaving no good thing in the natural man.

(4) Conversion Involves Subjecting Oneself to the Will or Law of God,
and This is Impossible to the Natural Man.

That such is impossible to the natural man is established by Rom. 8:7, in which we read: "The mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

(5) Conversion Involves Receiving Christ as One's Personal Saviour,
which is a Spiritual Thing, and the Natural Man Cannot Receive Spiritual Things.

This latter truth is declared in 1 Cor. 2:14, as follows: "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged."

If the truth of Christ's saving power through faith is not a thing of the Spirit of God,
that is, a thing that man can understand only through the revelation of the Spirit
then what truth is a thing of the Spirit of God?

(6) Conversion is a Spiritual Resurrection and in a Resurrection,
the Impartation of Life Must Always Precede the Manifestation of Life in Coming Forth.

Conversion is represented as a spiritual resurrection in Eph. 2:4-6, which says: "God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sin, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

The raising up here represents a conversion. So the question we are considering is as to which is first, the quickening or the raising up. There can be no reasonable doubt that the quickening is first in a logical sense.

(7) Conversion Involves Coming to Christ,
and the Act of the Father in Giving Men to Christ Precedes Their Coming to Christ.

In John 6:37 we read as follows:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come unto me."

This passage certainly places the Father's act of giving men to Christ
logically prior to their coming to Christ.

This act of the Father is a discriminative, effective act,
for all that are given come and all men do not come.

Thus this act of giving could not allude to the mere giving of the opportunity of coming to Christ
nor could it allude to the so-called "gracious ability" which is supposed by its advocates to be bestowed upon all men.

This act can refer to nothing short of the actual giving of men over into the immediate possession of Christ by quickening them into life. Men come to Christ in conversion.

Thus quickening must precede conversion.

(8) Conversion Involves Coming to Christ,
and no Man Can Come to Christ Except God Give Him the Ability to do so.

In John 6:65 we read: "No man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of my Father." This passage, as the one just noticed, does not refer to the mere giving of the opportunity to come to Christ, nor to the impartation of so-called "gracious ability" for the same reasons stated above in comment on John 6:37.

This latter passage, like the former one, refers to a discriminative act. The context makes this clear in the case of John 6:65. The words of this passage were spoken in view of and as an explanation of the fact that some believe not. Neither of these latter passages can refer to any kind of mere assistance that God might be supposed to bestow on the natural man, for repentance and faith cannot proceed from the natural heart, as we have shown. Both passages can refer to nothing short of the quickening power of God, in which men are enabled to come to Christ.

2. SCRIPTURES EXPLAINED It being true that conversion is the result of quickening and therefore, not a condition thereof, it may be asked how we are to understand those Scriptures that make faith a condition of sonship. See John 1:12; But as many as received him,
to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


We reply that this passage refers to sonship through adoption
and not to sonship through regeneration.

As we have already noted, adoption is a legal term.

It comes as an immediate result of justification.

It is not the same as regeneration.

It confers the right of sonship.

Regeneration confers the nature of sons.

 

[AustinC]

God moved me to know His Son as my Savior at the age of 4 years old. He broke my sinners heart and remade me as his child.
Being the son of a semi-pelagian pastor who preached in a very rural IFCA (Independent Fundamentalist Church of America) church. I was raised in free will, dispensational theology. I spent the next 16 years struggling to beat down my sin via holiness legalism, sometimes feeling like I was a great holy man and other times feeling like I was the most wretched man alive and wishing I was dead.
It was in one of these deep bouts with depression that I was first stirred by scripture to question free will theology as I pondered Galatians 2:20. For the next 20 years I moved toward Reformed Theology, but got hung up with General Redemption and the only sin that couldn't be forgiven being the sin of unbelief. I happened to be living in Minneapolis at this time and I started going to Bethlehem Baptist Church where John Piper was preaching. There I went to a Sunday School class taught by Thomas Schreiner who is now a professor at Southern Seminary in Louisville. He lovingly challenged my thinking and kept patiently pointing me to more and more scripture. It was in my mid forties when I found myself moving to Reformed Theology. I just couldn't deny what scripture was revealing. From there I slowly left dispensationalism and moved to covenant theology.

My entire life has been one of reading God's word and seeking to understand His work in my life. It's been a journey of faith as God teaches me to fight by faith in the power of God's grace. Galatians 2:20 is still the verse that points me to the Supremacy of Christ in my life.

 

[percho]

As a fellow Monergist that grew up in a 'hyper-evangelical/Dispensational' Southern Baptist church, I'm unable to pinpoint a time when I became a 'believer', because Jesus Christ has always been my 'hero' for as long as I can remember. I do, however, remember the day the truth hit me, and set me free from the horrendous burden imposed by the 'redemptive Church' whose mission it is to 'populate heaven'.



'The supernatural' heart change:

8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow,....thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3

'The means' for deliverance (salvation) from consequences of sin in this realm:

16 Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4

Your post made me think of this. Read it many years ago. Think you would like it.

The Pearly Gates Syndicate, or How to Sell Real Estate in Heaven by Charles Merrill Smith

 

[percho]

These have to do with, "being Justified", BEFORE MEN.

The others are justification by faith alone, FOR SALVATION,
through JESUS and HIS BLOOD, as they say.

Could the following be looked upon as follows?

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

Because:
for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift not of works, that no one may boast; for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk. Eph 2:8-10 YLT
Also
this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith? Gal 3:2

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2

Because:
because the mind of the flesh is enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself, for neither is it able; and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God. And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ -- this one is not His; Rom 8:7-9 YLT
Also
because this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord, giving My laws into their mind, and upon their hearts I will write them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me for a people; Heb 8:10

I also am Monergist

 

[DaveXR650]

Could the following be looked upon as follows?

Yes it could. But the idea that James was talking about a justification before men is also solid. I also think that it's possible to come to Christ, believe the gospel, and repent of your sins without having a complete understanding of Calvinism, monergism, or election. I came to Christ under preaching at a fairly young age and had no idea of those terms. If I remember right, Spurgeon was saved as an Arminian. We all were in the sense that from our point of view we "decided" to come to Christ. That is how we do everything we do unless you are talking about random motions. I was saved at a young age and over the years I have come to understand our complete dependence on God so I have I guess become more Calvinistic. I cringe when I see people who pretend to have gotten saved by their own wise decision and I also cringe when I hear someone so extreme in their view that every event is already predetermined that they won't allow someone to testify that they came to Christ or came to faith with accusing them of "self salvation". (And as far as I know the guys posting in this thread do not do that).

 

[kyredneck]

These have to do with, "being Justified", BEFORE MEN.

Wrong, and lame. Romans 2:5-7; Matthew 25:34-36; John 5:28-29.

 

[kyredneck]

Your post made me think of this. Read it many years ago. Think you would like it.

The Pearly Gates Syndicate, or How to Sell Real Estate in Heaven by Charles Merrill Smith

"The debate over whether or not the church functions in a redemptive or pastoral role goes back as far as the third century. Cyprian’s famous dictum, Extra ecclesiam nulla salus – “There is no salvation outside the church” – identifies the logical basis of the “means of grace” position. Those who argue that eternal life is mediated through the Christian gospel and/or Christian ordinances are reasoning from the premise that the church is a redemptive institution."

Christ The Only Mediator by Elder Michael Gowens

 

[kyredneck]

the idea that James was talking about a justification before men is also solid.

The namby-pamby 'explanation'. Wrong, and lame, and redundant....

 

[AustinC]

Folks, take the justification argument elsewhere please.
Moderators please remove all comments only talking about justification.

 

[37818]

The namby-pamby 'explanation'. Wrong, and lame, and redundant....

While we do not agree on the interpretation of the terminology of faith "alone." It is explicit that Abraham was justified before the LORD per Genesis 22:12.

 

[kyredneck]

It is explicit that Abraham was justified before the LORD per Genesis 22:12.

Excellent point! The 'justification' in James is before God, not men:

12 And he said, Lay not thy hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him. For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son, from me. Gen 22

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? Ja 2

 

[Van]

(1) Material False Statement: Conversion Involves Turning From Sin, and Man By Nature Is Unable To Do This.
Note no citation actually supports this falsehood. Here is the citation provided: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good that are accustomed to do evil." Here the false assertion is the person accomplishes "conversion" (being born anew) when obviously God accomplishes that "conversion." Actual conversion is based on God crediting a person's faith as righteous faith, which in part says I am a wretched sinner, unable to do anything to save myself, and I am relying solely on you Lord, for my salvation.


(2) Material False Statement: Conversion is Pleasing to God, and the Natural Man Cannot Please God.
Note no citation actually supports this falsehood. Here is the citation provided:

Romans 8:8 (NASB)
and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.​

Here we have "in the flesh" redefined as meaning "unregenerate" rather that an unregenerate with their mind set on fleshly desires. So yet another example of building false doctrine upon vague and ambiguous phrases to pour man-made doctrine into scripture.

(3) Material False Statement: Conversion is a Good Thing, and no Good Thing Can Proceed from the Natural Heart.
Note once again, the argument is based on the human, rather than God accomplishing "Conversion."

(4) Material False Statement: Conversion Involves Subjecting Oneself to the Will or Law of God,
and This is Impossible to the Natural Man.
Note here is the verse cited as support for this false claim:

Romans 8:7 (NASB)
because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,​

Here we have the false claim that an unregenerate cannot set his or her mind on some spiritual things (spiritual milk) some of the time. Yet Paul spoke "as to men of flesh" using spiritual milk.

The remaining numbered claims in post #29 are just as false and not worth the time to address as they all have been addresses many times in the past.

I had a choice, believe in the TULIP or believe in the Bible, but since they are irreconcilable, I could not see how to believe in both.