Last edited:
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Assorted Postmillennialism, articles, sermons.
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
i agree,those who see this are that generation.....they saw the sun ,moon , and stars as the destruction of Jerusalem, like in Isa. 13, Isa34.
How could they see something that hadn't yet happened? Only God, or someone to whome He shows a vision of the future can see that.
This shows you have no looked at or considered any of the links.
Any reader can see you are not serious.
13 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
lk21:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
LK21:
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.
15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
lk21
17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
The same language in mT. 24, and here in Luke 21;
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
37818
Well-Known Member
And what does that mean?
You may not understand, but I see the one global event which has not yet occured.
Isaiah 13:10.
Isaiah 24:23.
Ezekiel 32:7.
Joel 2:10.
Joel 2:31.
Joel 3:15.
Matthew 24:29.
Mark 13:24.
Luke 21:25.
Acts 2:20.
Revelation 6:12.
explain Isa.13....start at vs.6
go verse by verse...compare with the verses from luke in post 84.
then go to isa.34.. do the same thing.
then look at rev 6...
these are describing three separate incidents of the Day of the Lord.
isa 13....is not a prophecy of the future. it is history.
same with isa.34
Did the stars fall from heaven to earth, in Isa.?
Did the heaven roll up like a scroll.
37818
Well-Known Member
There are a spectrum of common events.
Isaiah 13:6
Joel 1:15
Revelation 6:17
1 Thessalonians 1:10.
Isaiah 34:4
Revelation 6:14
A precursor some thousand years before the Judgment, Revelation 20:11 followed by the full New Heaven and Earth, Revelation 21:1.
Psalms 102:25-26, Psalms 104:5.
a3fd.
Now take it further....the events that were literally taking place, were not stars falling, the heaven rolling up like a scroll.
it was literal judgment that took place, the ruling authority, the governments were replaced.
Babylon, Edom,Egypt,Jerusalem.
Rev6 was a description of the destruction of Jerusalem who had become the Harlot,aligning with Rome, the beast to come against the Church, the bride.
okay.
Now take it further....the events that were literally taking place, were not stars falling, the heaven rolling up like a scroll.
it was literal judgment that took place, the ruling authority, the governments were replaced.
Babylon, Edom,Egypt,Jerusalem.
Rev6 was a description of the destruction of Jerusalem who had become the Harlot,aligning with Rome, the beast to come against the Church, the bride.
37818
Well-Known Member
We do not agree as to the events and when in what future being referred to.
The "stars" are points of light. Many have seen some, being meteor showers. Psalms 102:25-26 refers to them being replaced, Revelation 20:11, Revelation 21:1.
No....we do not agree.
It seems as if you need to ignore the language used.
The heaven rolled up like a scroll?
It is not meteor showers....or shooting stars...lol.
You can believe what you want,but it is the partial preterist view that uses the bible to tell us exactly what it is.
37818
Well-Known Member
No. "stars falling" and heaven being rolled up like a scroll are two different things.
Psalms 102:25-26, ". . . Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: . . .". Revelation 20:11 and Revelation 21:1.
These verses do not help your position at all.
Isa34:4...all the hosts of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll.And all their hosts shall fall down, as a leaf fallen off from the vine...
This happened before the cross.
You have to ignore the language of this historic judgment.Partial preterists do not ignore but learn from it.
37818
Well-Known Member
We have different understands of some the same texts. Isaiah 34:4 compared with Revelation 6:14. A major problem being Revelation 20.
okay....so can you clarify what you mean, with a specific explanation?
Did the heavens dissolve at the day of the Lord in Babylon?
How did they dissolve?
What fell to the earth?
In rev.6...explain the language?
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Last edited:
37818
Well-Known Member
One simple answer. The heavens and the Earth are literally dissolved at the final Judgement per Revelation 20:11, ". . . the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."
So..in Revelation, you see it as the end of the world, cataclysmic judgments....I get that.
So you know I have to ask.....why did the world not end when the same exact language was used in Isa?
37818
Well-Known Member
As I gave an explanation Isaiah 34:4 as referring to Revelation 6:14 and it being some thousand years before Revelation 20:11. But you seem not to be able to believe that. As I stated this is over Revelation 20. It is a point of disagreement.
No, I do not believe it because it happened to Edom /Idumea as an historical judgment in History.
It happened to those people at that time. It was not speaking of rev.6 as if it was a prophecy.
It is you who do not want to deal consistently with the language, but I am not here to force you or anyone to do that.
We have offered our views , but will have to leave it there for now.
37818
Well-Known Member
I honestly fail to understand your argument. The pre millennial view is a fundamental of my personal faith. And has been, since both independent Baptist churches when I had joined them were pre millennial in their statements of faith. Just saying.