Assorted Postmillennialism, articles, sermons.

[robycop3]

Very well-about post #2 & Dr. Gentry's guess that Nero was the beast/antichrist...

It is far more plausible to suggest that the apostle was admonishing his readers to apply Gematria to the Beast’s number in order to come up with his name. Since Gematria is rarely practiced in the world today, it would seem unlikely that John had a 21st or 22nd-century audience. Of course, the citation above seems to raise an objection against Nero being the Beast since, as Hanegraaff said, his name comes out to 1,005. I’ll come to back to this later.

There were umpteen systems of gematria.One could make Nero's full name, Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, come out as Adolf Hitler with a little digging. The main kicker against all this is that the world went on the same in 71 AD after Jerusalem was destroyed as it did in 68 AD when Nero died. Still goes on the same today.

Gentry wrote:

“It is surely no accident that Nero was the sixth emperor of Rome. Flavius Josephus, the Jewish contemporary of John, clearly points out that Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome and that he was followed in succession by Augustus, Tiberius, Caius, Claudius, and, sixthly, Nero (Antiquities, books 18 and 19). The matter is confirmed just a little later in the writings of Roman historians: Suetonius, Lives of the Twelve Caesars and Dio Cassius, Roman History.

Actually, Rome had many more rulers before Julius Caesar, as it was founded in 753 BC. The kings(kingdoms) of Rev. 17 were Egypt, Assyria, babylon, Persia, & Greece. The 6th was, of course, Rome. The 7th was the Holy Roman Empire. The 8th will be made from nations & peoples who were part of the old Roman empires. They'll be the first parts of the beast's empire. (kingdom).

Remember, the Jews of that time called any head of state a king or queen.

Nero was overthrown by Galba in 68 AD & had his scribe Epaphroditue stab him with a sword. as Galba's men were coming to arrest him, as he didn't want to face public humiliation and a tortuous death. Galba's men tried unsuccessfully to keep him alive. Remember, Scripture says no man could overthrow the beast, & that he'd be cast alive into hell.

Then, there's the matter of the false prophet. While there have been many of them since before the Israelis left Egypt, & there are many of them today, Revelation is referring to one certain FP who can call down lightning & perform other miracles in the beast's presence, & who will be cast alive into hell with his boss.. Nero had no such deputy.

I'll not repeat the other proofs of why Nero was not the beast/antichrist unless requested.

I've read or watched more of Dr. Gentry's stuff than you might think, & found most of it to be imagination when put up against Scripture and history.

Sportzz Fanzz, whom will YOU choose to believe? Dr. Gentry, or GOD'S WORD?[/I]

 

[Iconoclast]

robycop3

Very well-about post #2 & Dr. Gentry's guess that Nero was the beast/antichrist...

Your post ignores that it took place in the first century, in that Generation as Jesus said.

 

[robycop3]

robycop3


Your post ignores that it took place in the first century, in that Generation as Jesus said.

..Except that it DIDN'T, & there's no historical evidence it DID.

The earth is still going right on as it did in 65 AD.

 

[Iconoclast]

..Except that it DIDN'T, & there's no historical evidence it DID.

The earth is still going right on as it did in 65 AD.

Every single thing happened as Jesus said it would in mt.and luke.
If you want to interact here...quote post 11...go over each paragraph.
If you agree say so.
If you do not agree....give a scriptural reason why.
No one cares what you think without scriptural backup.
If you cannot...you can join Y1..in the witness protection program as he has disappeared when asked to provide scriptural interaction.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Good discussion between Amill, Postmill and Premill

 

[robycop3]

Every single thing happened as Jesus said it would in mt.and luke.

No, it DIDN'T. You don't have one scintilla of **PROOF** they did. The occurrence of those events is not found in history, simple as THAT.

If you want to interact here...quote post 11...go over each paragraph.
If you agree say so.
If you do not agree....give a scriptural reason why.
No one cares what you think without scriptural backup.
If you cannot...you can join Y1..in the witness protection program as he has disappeared when asked to provide scriptural interaction.

I shall go over post #11 just to show you & pther prets that you're wrong, believing your guru gentry over the reality of history and God's word. While I agree there's symbolism in Scripture, it always represents something literal. For instance a symbolic harlot represents a false church & fornication represents false worship.

 

[robycop3]

No, it DIDN'T. You don't have one scintilla of **PROOF** they did. The occurrence of those events is not found in history, simple as THAT.

I shall go over post #11 just to show you & other prets that you're wrong, believing your guru Gentry over the reality of history and God's word. While I agree there's symbolism in Scripture, it always represents something literal. For instance a symbolic harlot represents a false church & fornication represents false worship.

 

[robycop3]

PMT 2014-014 by Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr.

In my last blog article I began a brief argument for John’s Babylon being a metaphor for first-century Jerusalem. In this study I will bring the argument to a conclusion. Though I welcome questions!

John clearly engages in a literary contrast between the harlot and the chaste bride, suggesting that he is counterposing the Jerusalem below with the Jerusalem above (Rev 21:2; cf. Gal 4:24ff.; Heb 12:18ff.). In Revelation 17:2–5 and Revelation 21:1ff the contrast is remarkable and detailed. We must remember that Revelation specifically designates the bride as the “New Jerusalem” from heaven. We see at least five contrasts:

(1) Notice how John is introduced to the harlot: “Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, ‘Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters’ ” (Rev 17:1). This is identical to the way he sees the bride: “Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, ‘Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife’ ” (Rev 21:9).

OF COURSE it's the same way. All of Revelation is a series of visions

Navigating the Book of Revelation (by Ken Gentry)
Technical studies on key issues in Revelation, including the seven-sealed scroll, the cast out temple, Jewish persecution of Christianity, the Babylonian Harlot, and more.
See more study materials at: www.KennethGentry.com

(2) The two women have a contrasting character: “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters” (Rev 17:1). “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife” (Rev 21:9).

(3) The two women appear in contrasting environments: “So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast” (Rev 17:3). “And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God” (Rev 21:10).

(4) John focuses on the contrasting dress of each woman: “The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication” (Rev 17:4). “And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints . . . having the glory of God. And her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal” (Rev 19:8; 21:11).

(5) John contrasts their names. Earlier in Revelation Johns calls earthly Jerusalem by pagan names quite compatible with the designation “Babylon.” In Revelation 11:8 he describes here as “spiritually Sodom and Egypt.” In an earlier day Isaiah identifies Jerusalem as Sodom and Gomorrah (Isa 1). The idea is that rather than conducting herself as the wife of God, she has become one of God’s enemies, like Sodom, Egypt, and Babylon.

God never calls Jerusalem "Babylon". Rev. 18 mentions toe 2 falls of Babylon. The first was when the city was taken by the Medes & Persians, who didn't destroy it, but it became an unimportant place. The 2nd Bab is a seaport

The fact that the harlot sits on the seven-headed beast (which represents Rome) indicates not her identity with Rome, but her alliance with Rome against Christianity. The Jews demand Christ’s crucifixion (Mt 27:24–25; Jn 19:12–15; Ac 2:23) and constantly either directly persecute Christians (Mt 23:37ff; Ac 8:1; 1Th 2:14–17) or stir up the Romans to do so (Ac 12:1–3; 17:5–7).

Actually, it shows the harlot will try to control the beast & his empire. That's what made many in the 1930s believe Hitler was the antichrist, as the RC Reichstag delegates passed the "Enabling Act" that gave Hitler almose-absolute power over Germany, They hoped to control him, but he turned on them soon as their usefulness to him was over. Thus, the beast will do the same with the RCC once he attains full power.
Rev. 17:
15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
Does THAT look like Jerusalem????????????

The evidence proves that the harlot is Jerusalem (for more detailed discussion see my book The Book of Revelation Made Easy). John’s Revelation contrasts the Jerusalem below with the Jerusalem above, as in Hebrews 12:22 and Galatians 4:25–26. The Jerusalem below has forsaken her husband in denying the Messiah.

"Mystery, Babylon" is the false religion started by Nimrod & Semiramis, which polluted ancient Israel & Judah (Remember the Jewish women of Ezekiel 8:14-17 who wept for Tammuz, & the ones of Jeremiah's time making cakes for the "queen of heaven".) Elements of this religion are found in the RCC of today, with Mary replacing Semiramis as queen of heaven.

I believe it to be supremely clear that John is dealing with Jerusalem under the image of Babylon. She is the new enemy of God, even being called “a synagogue of Satan” (Rev 2:9; 3:9) and “Egypt” (Rev 11:8). This is much like Isaiah calling Israel Sodom and Gomorrah (Isa 1:10) and Ezekiel calling her the sister of Sodom (Eze 16:49).

MMRRPP ! WRONG !
Dr. Gentry completely ignores this verse-Rev. 17: 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
THAT, OF COURSE, WAS NOT & IS NOT JERUSALEM ! !
In John's time, that could only be ROME! It fits the bill perfectly, sitting on 7 hills, & being the seat of the RCC. And in John's day, it was the seat of the Roman empire, & the center of rule for most of the peoples John knew about.

Now, while Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, it was soon rebuilt. Rome was sacked several times, but never mostly destroyed. But the new Babylon will be completely wiped out, & as the angel said, "found no more".

See how easy it is to prove Gentry wrong with Scripture & history? You made a poor choice for a guru!

 

[Iconoclast]

"robycop3,

Thank you for an attempted response.
Let's see what you try,lol.

See how easy it is to prove Gentry wrong with Scripture & history? You made a poor choice for a guru!

It is really easy when you ignore everything he posted and make-believe you are answering

OF COURSE it's the same way. All of Revelation is a series of visions

This is saying nothing toward the discussion as you avoid the link entirely.
Your supposed response does not respond to anything spoken of, so in fact, is a non-response!
Here is what Pastor Gentry actually said, showing your response to be incoherent???

John clearly engages in a literary contrast between the harlot and the chaste bride, suggesting that he is counterposing the Jerusalem below with the Jerusalem above (Rev 21:2; cf. Gal 4:24ff.; Heb 12:18ff.)

He is suggesting two contrasts;

The harlot ../...chaste bride......Earthly Jerusalem../... Heavenly Jerusalem.If you do not agree, give a biblical reason.He offered 3 verses, you do not comment on them???

God never calls Jerusalem "Babylon". Rev. 18 mentions toe 2 falls of Babylon.

Not only do you not comment on the scripture he offers, you mention rev 18, but do not explain any of the language of the passage???

The first was when the city was taken by the Medes & Persians, who didn't destroy it, but it became an unimportant place. The 2nd Bab is a seaport

You deny it could be Jerusalem, yet admit it has been destroyed??? Why are believers in the first Century told to flee out of Babylon? 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
You suggest Gentry cannot be right, but offer nothing by way of a response.

Actually, it shows the harlot will try to control the beast & his empire.

What harlot???
Where in the bible did prophets come from Babylon , for their blood to be shed?

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

"Mystery, Babylon" is the false religion started by Nimrod & Semiramis, which polluted ancient Israel & Judah (Remember the Jewish women of Ezekiel 8:14-17 who wept for Tammuz, & the ones of Jeremiah's time making cakes for the "queen of heaven".) Elements of this religion are found in the RCC of today, with Mary replacing Semiramis as queen of heaven.

You pull this from Hislops two Babylons, and try to link it to the RC.church??? Not really dealing with Pastor Gentry at all.
This is a big swing and a miss

 

[Iconoclast]

I shall go over post #11 just to show you & other prets that you're wrong, believing your guru Gentry over the reality of history and God's word. While I agree there's symbolism in Scripture, it always represents something literal. For instance a symbolic harlot represents a false church & fornication represents false worship.

The reality of History is everything Jesus spoke of happened, the temple was destroyed, the abomination of desolation, people fleeing Jerusalem, Old Covenant passed away, Judaism destroyed, sacrificial system decimated...

Right now each of the posted links stand.
According to you, we need a;

New rebuilt third temple

renewed animal sacrifices

a carnal priesthood

A revived roman empire

a new anti christ

, as if something will be different.

Physical signs in the sun, moon, and stars,

A new "this generation"

a new babylon

Basically, you are suggesting a do-over

 

[robycop3]

The reality of History is everything Jesus spoke of happened, the temple was destroyed, the abomination of desolation, people fleeing Jerusalem, Old Covenant passed away, Judaism destroyed, sacrificial system decimated...

The AOD did not occur in the now-destroyed temple, nor has the great trib occurred, nor have the beast & false prophet yet come, and, most important of all, JESUS has not yet returned.

Right now each of the posted links stand.
According to you, we need a;

New rebuilt third temple

...which will happen when the time comes.

renewed animal sacrifices

...which the Jews will resume when the temple is built. They're already breeding the animals for this.

a carnal priesthood

...which the Jews will appoint, mostly from men surnamed "Cohen".

A revived roman empire

The beast/antichrist will forge a new empire from among the peoples of the old Roman empires. I have no idea what it'll be called.

a new anti christ

...Coming.

,

as if something will be different.

...It will.

Physical signs in the sun, moon, and stars,

...Coming.

A new "this generation"

...May be this one; may be a later one.

a new babylon

...Likely here now under another name.

Basically, you are suggesting a do-over

Newp! Just repeating what GOD said.

 

[robycop3]

"robycop3,

Thank you for an attempted response.
Let's see what you try,lol.


It is really easy when you ignore everything he posted and make-believe you are answering

Not ignoring-just refuting.
[/B]

This is saying nothing toward the discussion as you avoid the link entirely.
Your supposed response does not respond to anything spoken of, so in fact, is a non-response!
Here is what Pastor Gentry actually said, showing your response to be incoherent???

John clearly engages in a literary contrast between the harlot and the chaste bride, suggesting that he is counterposing the Jerusalem below with the Jerusalem above (Rev 21:2; cf. Gal 4:24ff.; Heb 12:18ff.)

The fact of the New J is spelled out in the Revelation vision. OF COURSE it'll be different as it's made by GOD.

He is suggesting two contrasts;

The harlot ../...chaste bride......Earthly Jerusalem../... Heavenly Jerusalem.If you do not agree, give a biblical reason.He offered 3 verses, you do not comment on them???

It's OBVIOUS they're different. I didn't argue that at all. I simply looked past it as not being germane to our discussion.

Not only do you not comment on the scripture he offers, you mention rev 18, but do not explain any of the language of the passage???

It's pretty self-explanatory.

You deny it could be Jerusalem, yet admit it has been destroyed???

Of course. J was soon rebuilt; Babylon was not. Look what happened to Saddam Hussein & his sons who tried to rebuild it.

Why are believers in the first Century told to flee out of Babylon? 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
You suggest Gentry cannot be right, but offer nothing by way of a response.

The 2nd Babylon hasn't yet been destroyed. And when it is, it shall be found no more.(Rev.8:21) It shall be quickly destroyed, unlike the old Babylon which still existed in Jesus' time.

What harlot???

Why, the one of Rev. 17, of course!

Where in the bible did prophets come from Babylon , for their blood to be shed?

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The new Babylon appears to be Rome.

You pull this from Hislops two Babylons, and try to link it to the RC.church??? Not really dealing with Pastor Gentry at all.
This is a big swing and a miss

The reality of history & the CORRECT interp of Scripture peove all preterists wrong. The proof is right before your eyes. This is the same earth that was here in 65 AD. There are many relics that wouldn't be here had the earth been re-made already. If you can't see that, you're living in an illusory world made by your own mind.

 

[Iconoclast]

Roby
Thanks for attempting to participate in this thread will get you a participation trophy. Now the fact that you deny everything that happened in the past actually happened ,and you wanna put everything to the future and have a redo on everything just so it could happen again the way it happened the 1st time that would be better suited to a thread that you make on your premill. fantasies and you can go ahead and do that.
You have made your view known and now you're starting to repeat yourself so it'll be better if you make your own thread and those who want to actually discuss what happened in the past the wages are said would be better off to answer on this thread maybe later when I have time I'll go over what you posted and show it in detail once again even though we have shown it several times but I'll do it again as a illustrative model..

 

[SovereignGrace]

Roby
Thanks for attempting to participate in this thread will get you a participation trophy. Now the fact that you deny everything that happened in the past actually happened ,and you wanna put everything to the future and have a redo on everything just so it could happen again the way it happened the 1st time that would be better suited to a thread that you make on your premill. fantasies and you can go ahead and do that.
You have made your view known and now you're starting to repeat yourself so it'll be better if you make your own thread and those who want to actually discuss what happened in the past the wages are said would be better off to answer on this thread maybe later when I have time I'll go over what you posted and show it in detail once again even though we have shown it several times but I'll do it again as a illustrative model..

God destroyed the temple, dispensationalism wants to erect it again.

God tore down the barrier wall that divided Jews and Gentiles, dispensationalism wants to put it back again.

God did away with animal sacrifice, dispensationalism seeks to reinstitute that practice.

That’s an anachronistic belief system…if I’m using that word correctly?

 

[robycop3]

Roby
Thanks for attempting to participate in this thread will get you a participation trophy. Now the fact that you deny everything that happened in the past actually happened ,and you wanna put everything to the future and have a redo on everything just so it could happen again the way it happened the 1st time that would be better suited to a thread that you make on your premill. fantasies and you can go ahead and do that.
You have made your view known and now you're starting to repeat yourself so it'll be better if you make your own thread and those who want to actually discuss what happened in the past the wages are said would be better off to answer on this thread maybe later when I have time I'll go over what you posted and show it in detail once again even though we have shown it several times but I'll do it again as a illustrative model..

"The reality of history & Scripture prove every preterist wrong."

 

[robycop3]

God destroyed the temple, dispensationalism wants to erect it again.

It must be there for the AOD to occur in.

God tore down the barrier wall that divided Jews and Gentiles, dispensationalism wants to put it back again.

No, Orthodox Jews kept it by refusing to accept Jesus as Messiah.

God did away with animal sacrifice, dispensationalism seeks to reinstitute that practice.

No, Orthodox Jews do.

That’s an anachronistic belief system…if I’m using that word correctly?

According to Scripture, the beast/antichrist will once again end it after it's resumed, as he won't acknowledge any other god but himself.

Nothingta do with dispensationalism.

 

[robycop3]

Roby
Thanks for attempting to participate in this thread will get you a participation trophy. Now the fact that you deny everything that happened in the past actually happened ,and you wanna put everything to the future and have a redo on everything just so it could happen again the way it happened the 1st time that would be better suited to a thread that you make on your premill. fantasies and you can go ahead and do that.
You have made your view known and now you're starting to repeat yourself so it'll be better if you make your own thread and those who want to actually discuss what happened in the past the wages are said would be better off to answer on this thread maybe later when I have time I'll go over what you posted and show it in detail once again even though we have shown it several times but I'll do it again as a illustrative model..

I'll be much-interested in seeing your explanations of when the beast-antichrist ruled the world, who his miracle-working false prophet was, what the mark of the beast looked like, when the AOD occurred & who did it, when the great trib hit the whole world, & when Jesus returned, seen by all. Meanwhile, I'll sit here & snicker when I think how ridiculous and outright comical the whole pret theory is.

 

[37818]

There is no evidence that Satan has been bound per Revelation 20:2-3. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4. Matthew 13:19. 1 Peter 5:8. James 4:7.

 

[Yeshua1]

There is no evidence that Satan has been bound per Revelation 20:2-3. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4. Matthew 13:19. 1 Peter 5:8. James 4:7.

When Satan will get bound , there shall be no more Islam, New Age, etc in play anywhere in world, no more isis etc!

 

[Iconoclast]

There is no evidence that Satan has been bound per Revelation 20:2-3. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4. Matthew 13:19. 1 Peter 5:8. James 4:7.

He is not annihilated.
It says he is bound so he cannot deceive the nations....ps.....the gospel is going to the nations since the day of Pentecost. Not just Israel,but worldwide.