Assurance of Salvation

[George Antonios]

I do not see the distictiom between assurance of salvation and eternal security. Without an eternal security there can be no assurance of salvation.

Well of course. But you can have eternal security without knowing it or not believing it. In such a situation, you are eternally secure, but unassured.

 

[George Antonios]

Augustine wrote:

But, moreover, that such things as these are so spoken to saints who will persevere, as if it were reckoned uncertain whether they will persevere, is a reason that they ought not otherwise to hear these things, since it is well for them “not to be high-minded, but to fear." For who of the multitude of believers can presume, so long as he is living in this mortal state, that he is in the number of the predestinated? Because it is necessary that in this condition that should be kept hidden; since here we have to beware so much of pride, that even so great an apostle was buffetted by a messenger of Satan, lest he should be lifted up. Hence it was said to the apostles, “If ye abide in me;” and this He said who knew for a certainty that they would abide; and through the prophet, “If ye shall be willing, and will hear me,” although He knew in whom He would work to will also. And many similar things are said.

a) can you please give us the reference?
b) can you please explain how that differs from Calvin?

 

[George Antonios]

Those who remain steadfast to Jesus as their Lord and Savior until they did confirm that they are elected by God, but remember that it does not mean never sins, nor cannot sin for a season, bu t that they will not stay always in that sinning state, as they msut at some time repent and return to God!
I do not see someone trusting in Jesus as their Lord in a saving sense having in the end a 'counterfit faith"

Is the OP understanding correct? Yes or no?

 

[George Antonios]

Without assurance, security is meaningless in a person's christian life!

It's not meaningless because he is still saved, but he doesn't have the peace that it ought to give.

 

[George Antonios]

I can hardly believe this. Only ONE person addressed the OP, and that was @Iconoclast.
Can you guys please stop bickering and help me out by answering the OP?! Please.

 

[Walpole]

This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.

If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential, if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.

Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.

Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].

Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks

I'll let the Calvinists answer your question. However, I think it's worth mentioning that Calvin's God can also trick and deceive you into thinking you are elect. Calvin's God can illumine your mind into thinking you are elect, giving you a taste of his mercy, only to pull the rug out from under you at the end...

Calvin, Institutes, 3.2.11 ---> “Nor do I even deny that God illumines their [reprobates] minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. When he shows himself propitious to them, it is not as if he had truly rescued them from death, and taken them under his protection. He only gives them a manifestation of his present mercy.”

Nice God, eh?

 

[Iconoclast]

I can hardly believe this. Only ONE person addressed the OP, and that was @Iconoclast.
Can you guys please stop bickering and help me out by answering the OP?! Please.

Thanks for noticing what the Op. was actually getting at. I have to confess years ago I had someone put this whole issue to me and I argued like many are that no it's Jesus it's the cross it's the blood all good answers and all good gifts but I could not get around what this pastor was bringing out to me and I think it's a good exercise to Think Through It

 

[Yeshua1]

Is the OP understanding correct? Yes or no?

the Holy Spirit only can give real eternal life in Christ, so any so called counterfeit faith has come to someone by Satan as an Angel of light, thru one of His "pastors/teaching" spreading demonic heresies!

 

[rsr]

a) can you please give us the reference?
b) can you please explain how that differs from Calvin?

A. Augustine, "Rebuke and Grace," Chapter 40.
B. Calvin taught that the elect can have certainty, as outlined in the above quote from Institutes.
Assurance of Salvation

 

[Steven_15]

if God expects perfection, Jesus died for no reason or cause!

So God doesn't expect you to stop sinning in Mathew 5:48?
If God expects you to stop sinning why haven't you, and why do you consider yourself "not sinless"?
If you haven't stopped sinning, why do you expect others to stop sinning like a hypocrite?

 

[Steven_15]

the Holy Spirit only can give real eternal life in Christ, so any so called counterfeit faith has come to someone by Satan as an Angel of light, thru one of His "pastors/teaching" spreading demonic heresies!

You deny matter comes from God the Spirit. It is you who spread demonic evolutionistic heresies!

 

[Steven_15]

All of us have and will keep on breaking the 10 Commandments in some way!

So don't preach commanding others not to break commandments!

 

[Steven_15]

Which commandment was I breaking in demanding that the couple practice what God commands to in his word?

Jesus commanded to be perfect as the Father is perfect. But you break that commandment of God in His word and demand the couple practice what God commands in His word, you hypocrite!

 

[Steven_15]

Well of course. But you can have eternal security without knowing it or not believing it. In such a situation, you are eternally secure, but unassured.

Faith is the evidence of security. If one has no faith, it is a delusion to think he has security.

 

[Steven_15]

It's not meaningless because he is still saved, but he doesn't have the peace that it ought to give.

Faith is the evidence. No faith means the person wasn't saved.

 

[Steven_15]

Is the OP understanding correct? Yes or no?

After repenting, yeshua1 has not returned to "sinlessness" but again to the same old "not sinless" state. But he is lying by saying he has returned to God! None can return to God through works but only by grace. But he pretends to have returned to God through his works.

 

[Yeshua1]

After repenting, yeshua1 has not returned to "sinlessness" but again to the same old "not sinless" state. But he is lying by saying he has returned to God! None can return to God through works but only by grace. But he pretends to have returned to God through his works.

Supreme irony that one lost in the foolish heresy of dominion/WoF lectures me on salvation!

 

[Steven_15]

Supreme irony that one lost in the foolish heresy of dominion/WoF lectures me on salvation!

Supreme irony one evolutionist false teacher who is also an agent for gifted healers, disobeys God's command in Mathew 5:48 and goes around lecturing others to "stop sinning"!
☺☺☺☺

 

[Yeshua1]

Supreme irony one evolutionist false teacher who is also an agent for gifted healers, disobeys God's command in Mathew 5:48 and goes around lecturing others to "stop sinning"!
☺☺☺☺

Never stated that we are to stop sinning perfectly, but that anyone in position of leadership needs to live as they ought as a testimony to Jesus Christ!

 

[Steven_15]

Never stated that we are to stop sinning perfectly, but that anyone in position of leadership needs to live as they ought as a testimony to Jesus Christ!

This evolutionist false teacher promotes disobedience to Mathew 5:48 as constituting a testimony to Jesus!