Atheists and Liberals better than evangelicals

[Revmitchell]

Were you not taught never to assume? You either know something or you don't know something. Assuming is where mistakes get made....sometimes dangerious & tragic mistakes. It is also my belief that how you do one thing is how you so everything.

Good for you.

 

[Luke2427]

What are you trying to say? Do you mean you are castigating false believers, or what. Every single Evangelical and Fundamentalist is not a Christian --but true believers in their ranks are certainly The Church --not the church.

The problem is that evangelicals and fundamentalists are not even getting their children high school diplomas on the level that atheists are.

I believe part of the reason is because many evangelicals and fundamentalists are not real Christians. For example, on most church rolls there are as many as half that do not attend church who are physically able to do so.

Most of these people might as well be atheists. To call them Christians is a stretch. But we DO call them Christians. We KEEP them on our rolls. At their funerals we assure their loved ones that they are in heaven because they prayed a prayer years ago, were baptized and became members of our churches. Their obituaries in the local newspaper list then as members of our churches. Not ALL of us preach them into heaven- I am aware. But what most of us do is allow them to remain members without expecting any growth in sanctification on their part.

So these people do not feel the need to sharpen their children's minds. They are not spiritual enough to see that loving God with all your mind means expanding your mind as much as possible. This is so that you can know Him and his creation better which enables you to love him more and serve him more faithfully- not to mention to influence more people for Christ. Allowing so many unChristian people to be a part of our churches (I don't mean to attend- I want all of them to attend) brings reproach on the name of Christ in our culture.

But the other problem is what we see on this thread. Too many Christians devalue education. And I am not talking about the fact that they are disillusioned about public schools. I understand that. However, I do not think that the stats from Pew fail to take into account diplomas from private Christian schools (but even if they did there are only 278,000 who get private school diplomas out of 3.3 million total diplomas each year and not all of those private schools are overtly Christian. The number of Christian school diplomas simply is not enough to be statistically significant).

We have a real problem with the fact that America is falling behind the rest of the industrialized world in math and science but we seem rather hypocritically and self-righteously to fail to deal with the fact that, of all Americans falling behind educationally, fundamentalists and evangelicals LEAD THE PACK.

Do you not see the hypocrisy?

Should we not seek to repent of that hypocrisy?

Should we not begin by acknowledging a painful fact and then seek to improve?

Should we not say every once in a while in the pulpit and in SS classes and other venues something like, "Christian parents, it is not ok for you to allow your kids to make F's when they could do better. The Bible teaches us that whatsoever our hand finds to do we should do it with all our hearts!"?

Haggai SHAMED God's people and they repented and rose to the occasion of building God's house. God was pleased when his people repented of their error and God blessed them.

Paul did the same to the Corinthians.

That is what ought to be happening over this matter of education, over this matter of the divorce rate and a host of other shameful things going on in evangelicalism today in our culture.

 

[JamesL]

One of the things that gets lost in a forum like this is that this is not my congregation and I am not the shepherd of BB. Here I am a debater, not a pastor.

My church is not a debate forum. There, I am not a debater; I am a pastor.

So....
are you putting on a show here for us, or are you putting on a show for your sheeple?

or are you some sort of Jekyll and Hyde figure?

Who's the real you?

The problem is that evangelicals and fundamentalists are not even getting their children high school diplomas on the level that atheists are.

I believe part of the reason is because many evangelicals and fundamentalists are not real Christians.

So....
when are you and your church scheduled to start demanding educational credentials to validate professions of faith?

 

[Luke2427]

So....
are you putting on a show here for us, or are you putting on a show for your sheeple?

or are you some sort of Jekyll and Hyde figure?

Who's the real you?

False dichotomy.

There is no show.

You speak to your children differently than you speak to your boss.

You treat the enemy on the battlefield differently than you treat your wife.

And you speak differently to the people you debate than you do the people you pastor.

There is no show involved in any of that. I do not debate my people. I lead them and feed them and care for them.

I do not debate my children. I guide them.

I do not debate the enemy of the United States on the battlefield. I kill him.

To purport that a man who is a pastor of a congregation is supposed to speak the same way to everybody is not well thought out.

Jesus was merciful and gracious to broken sinners and fierce with self-righteous hypocrites.

Different environments, different people, different positions all require appropriately different ways of handling them.

So....
when are you and your church scheduled to start demanding educational credentials to validate professions of faith?

Well, that's just idiotic. Nobody said any such thing.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well, that's just idiotic. Nobody said any such thing.

Actually what James said is not a stretch given you claimed the church should be placing parents under church discipline for having kids with failing grades. That is what is idiotic.

 

[Luke2427]

Actually what James said is not a stretch given you claimed the church should be placing parents under church discipline for having kids with failing grades. That is what is idiotic.

That's a far far cry from "validating professions of faith by educational credentials."

So you think the church should let parents raise their children in squalor without any cultivation whatsoever and remain in good standing?

You think that when Paul said one who provides not for his own should be counted by the church as worse than an infidel only applies to food, water and shelter- the same things we give our dogs?

 

[Revmitchell]

That's a far far cry from "validating professions of faith by educational credentials."

First, its not and James did not suggest that should be done. He simply suggested that is the logical outcome of your ideology.

So you think the church should let parents raise their children in squalor without any cultivation whatsoever and remain in good standing?

Another extremism. And it is not any of the church's business.

You think that when Paul said one who provides not for his own should be counted by the church as worse than an infidel only applies to food, water and shelter- the same things we give our dogs?

You have taken that out of context to misapply that verse. It has no application here. And by the way children fail classes for any number of reasons. Many of the legitimate. When the church gets in the business of trying to parse out every reason the children are failing in a class or more then we have lost site of the mission of the church.


Again it is not any of our business.

1.Does your church discipline parents who children are failing?
2.If not would it?
3.How would your church respond to you for bringing up a set of parents for that reason?
4.How many churches do you know of that have put this to practice?
5.Can you name any?

 

[plain_n_simple]

When we compare Christians with the world, we do look sad.

But,( and here's the butt) it's worse because we are foolish to compare ourselves with ourselves.
The bride of Christ is not measured to the worlds standards.
The body of Christ is known either for love or judgement, from the body as a whole to each person. Do we look like Jesus or Pharisees?
The world does not read the bible, it reads Christians.

The church in America is not known for it's love. It's known to be condemning and hateful, and has become a political tool that Jesus never intended.

The church has lost people in droves because no one likes to be around a strict, joyless people, that love to point the finger. The church has to be attractive to attract. Love is the command.

When the world compares it's divorces, adultery, homosexuality and all sorts of addictions and problems to Christians, and finds there is no difference, it proves the hypocrisy.
The traditional church in America is about to lose her candlestick unless she repents. Gather not Scatter.

 

[quantumfaith]

When we compare Christians with the world, we do look sad.

But,( and here's the butt) it's worse because we are foolish to compare ourselves with ourselves.
The bride of Christ is not measured to the worlds standards.
The body of Christ is known either for love or judgement, from the body as a whole to each person. Do we look like Jesus or Pharisees?
The world does not read the bible, it reads Christians.

The church in America is not known for it's love. It's known to be condemning and hateful, and has become a political tool that Jesus never intended.

The church has lost people in droves because no one likes to be around a strict, joyless people, that love to point the finger. The church has to be attractive to attract. Love is the command.

When the world compares it's divorces, adultery, homosexuality and all sorts of addictions and problems to Christians, and finds there is no difference, it proves the hypocrisy.
The traditional church in America is about to lose her candlestick unless she repents. Gather not Scatter.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Listen.... in a way I can understand. Until the churches start a process of working in the world with others, nobody is going to listen to then anymore. This attitude that you gotta come to church or else your not a Christian doesn't fly anymore. Rather, go out to people and do it regularity. There you will find the risen Jesus.

In the story of the good Sam, who do you really think was Christ and who really was the church? Think about that one for awhile.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Listen.... in a way I can understand. Until the churches start a process of working in the world with others, nobody is going to listen to then anymore. This attitude that you gotta come to church or else your not a Christian doesn't fly anymore. Rather, go out to people and do it regularity. There you will find the risen Jesus.

In the story of the good Sam, who do you really think was Christ and who really was the church? Think about that one for awhile.

Good analogy:applause::thumbs::jesus:

 

[JamesL]

One of the things that gets lost in a forum like this is that this is not my congregation and I am not the shepherd of BB. Here I am a debater, not a pastor.

My church is not a debate forum. There, I am not a debater; I am a pastor.

Conflating the two environments and positions is part of the problem with the way some view me and other pastors here.

WAIT a minute !!!

You've posted 7,400 pieces of drivel here in 3-1/2 years, at various times of day. I'm going to make a bold leap here and insist that many of those have been posted
During The Time You're Supposed To Be Pastoring

If you want to nonchalantly dismiss your BB attitude as a separation between pastor and debater, then you have some explaining to do to those people who are paying your salary.

If you want to make distinctions for attitude, then we ought to make distinctions for time and money, too.

Why are you debating here when you're supposed to be pastoring there? Are they paying you to pastor or debate?

Sounds like you're cheating them

Well, that's just idiotic. Nobody said any such thing.

As Rev pointed out, that is simply the logical outcome of your ignorant assertions. Simple reasoning:

* the church (not the Church) is full of a bunch of dumb, wayward infidels
* part of the reason is that they're not real Christians

It's very easy to translate that as:
If they were REAL Christians, they would have some educational credentials. The lack thereof is but one proof of their spurious faith.

I can almost read your mind - "Real Christians are all like ME."

Solution:
Demand educational credentials along with a profession of faith, and you can effectively root out those stupid, uneducated imposters of the faith.

That's why I suggested you post pictures of your credentials, so that everybody here can praise you for the great man that you are.

Maybe you should make a YouTube video. You could climb up on a podium so that everybody can get a glimpse of the great man, and adorn you with gifts for your intellectual accomplishments. We could all bow the knee to your superior hermeneutic prowess. We could extol the greatness your educational feats.

Or we could simply expose you as a fraud, then go about our day

 

[JamesL]

I've got to get ready for church.

I want to get there early so I can start checking high school diplomas :wavey:

 

[Luke2427]

First, its not and James did not suggest that should be done. He simply suggested that is the logical outcome of your ideology.

It's extreme. He might as well have said, "So when are you going to start gassing people in your community for not having Ph. D's"

It's silly.

Another extremism. And it is not any of the church's business.

That's AWFUL eccesiology!

Church is LARGELY about accountability.

You have taken that out of context to misapply that verse. It has no application here. And by the way children fail classes for any number of reasons. Many of the legitimate.

So lets get to the bottom of it. If its negligence on the parents part, leadership needs to sit down with them, offer help and express what we believe Christ expects of his people.

When the church gets in the business of trying to parse out every reason the children are failing in a class or more then we have lost site of the mission of the church.

What do you think is the mission of the church?

Again it is not any of our business.

1.Does your church discipline parents who children are failing?

No. But we do offer after school tutoring classes and we do preach that providing for one's own means more than giving them the same stuff we give our dogs.

2.If not would it?
3.How would your church respond to you for bringing up a set of parents for that reason?

Doubtful it would ever go that far. The parents would repent or leave long before the leadership brought them before the church.

Now, answer my question.

Do you think "providing for one's own" means just giving them the things we give our dogs?

 

[Luke2427]

WAIT a minute !!!

You've posted 7,400 pieces of drivel here in 3-1/2 years, at various times of day. I'm going to make a bold leap here and insist that many of those have been posted
During The Time You're Supposed To Be Pastoring

If you want to nonchalantly dismiss your BB attitude as a separation between pastor and debater, then you have some explaining to do to those people who are paying your salary.

If you want to make distinctions for attitude, then we ought to make distinctions for time and money, too.

Why are you debating here when you're supposed to be pastoring there? Are they paying you to pastor or debate?

Sounds like you're cheating them



As Rev pointed out, that is simply the logical outcome of your ignorant assertions. Simple reasoning:

* the church (not the Church) is full of a bunch of dumb, wayward infidels
* part of the reason is that they're not real Christians

It's very easy to translate that as:
If they were REAL Christians, they would have some educational credentials. The lack thereof is but one proof of their spurious faith.

I can almost read your mind - "Real Christians are all like ME."

Solution:
Demand educational credentials along with a profession of faith, and you can effectively root out those stupid, uneducated imposters of the faith.

That's why I suggested you post pictures of your credentials, so that everybody here can praise you for the great man that you are.

Maybe you should make a YouTube video. You could climb up on a podium so that everybody can get a glimpse of the great man, and adorn you with gifts for your intellectual accomplishments. We could all bow the knee to your superior hermeneutic prowess. We could extol the greatness your educational feats.

Or we could simply expose you as a fraud, then go about our day

You are a very bitter man.

I post on average about 5.6 posts a day. That takes about 30 minutes a day.

Get over yourself.

Maybe if you were better educated... :laugh:

 

[plain_n_simple]

It's not about education. It's about knowing Him. You can know about Him from an education, but you cannot develop a relationship(abide in Him) through education.

 

[Revmitchell]

It's extreme. He might as well have said, "So when are you going to start gassing people in your community for not having Ph. D's"

It's silly.

Yes! You are right it is and so is your position which is the point.

That's AWFUL eccesiology!

Church is LARGELY about accountability.

Talk about awful ecclesiology.

So lets get to the bottom of it. If its negligence on the parents part, leadership needs to sit down with them, offer help and express what we believe Christ expects of his people.

It needs to be preached and taught. We need to lead through influence not personal control.

What do you think is the mission of the church?

Preaching the gospel to all the world. I am sure you can find the scripture that supports that.

No.

There ya go. You now have nothing to stand on.

Doubtful it would ever go that far. The parents would repent or leave long before the leadership brought them before the church.

That did not answer my question.

Now, answer my question.

Do you think "providing for one's own" means just giving them the things we give our dogs?

You failed to answer all my questions:

4.How many churches do you know of that have put this to practice?
5.Can you name any?

 

[Luke2427]

It's not about education. It's about knowing Him. You can know about Him from an education, but you cannot develop a relationship(abide in Him) through education.

Then why learn Math?

Let's just let ALL of our kids be stupid.

Why bother learning American history- as long as our kids know Jesus then they do not need to learn ANYTHING.

Except that God would be furious with that kind of sorriness from his people.

The Bible says, "Whatsoever you put your hand to do it with all your heart."

I like D. James Kennedy's motto for his ministry:

All things for God's glory, therefore excellence in all things.

 

[Luke2427]

Yes! You are right it is and so is your position which is the point.





Talk about awful ecclesiology.





It needs to be preached and taught. We need to lead through influence not personal control.






Preaching the gospel to all the world. I am sure you can find the scripture that supports that.





There ya go. You now have nothing to stand on.





That did not answer my question.



You failed to answer all my questions:

4.How many churches do you know of that have put this to practice?
5.Can you name any?

I have to provide 5 answers for every one you provide?:laugh:

You ought to study the issue of accountability in the church.

When you answer my question thoroughly I will address the rest of yours.

 

[JamesL]

You are a very bitter man.

Good thing God loves bitter fools, right?

I post on average about 5.6 posts a day. That takes about 30 minutes a day.

That's because virtually every post of yours is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction. You don't think things through, which would require a lot more than 5.3 minutes per post

But in reality, it's just another snide brush-off.

Get over yourself.

That's what 30 or 40 people here have been trying to tell YOU

Maybe if you were better educated...

If only I were more like you, right? -----> :laugh: