Babies in Hell?

[Paul33]

Babies that die in families where neither parent professes faith in Christ may very well go to hell (1 Cor. 7:14).

If all babies go to heaven when they die, I must of necessity, at the very least, stop my opposition to abortion. Abortion becomes a means of grace for children who would otherwise be born into sinful circumstances, grow up and reject the Gospel.

Now is Satan so stupid that he would advocate the murder of billions of babies if they all wound up in heaven?

 

[Helen]

Why would Satan do that? Because it
1. makes murderers of the women, doctors, and nurses who participate
2. devalues life
3. tells God He doesn't know what He is doing when a conception happens.

Ain't that enough?

 

[rsr]

OK, folks. I have had to whack some posts.

Keep it civil. I will not hesitate for a moment to shut down this thread.

Thanks for your consideration.

rsr

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by Helen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by saturneptune:
You all do as you wish, but the more you respond to Craig, the more he responds with his unbiblical posts. He is trying to get a reaction and has no interest in the Christian faith or anyones feelings. Ignoring is the best solution.

for the most part, agreed. Every once in awhile I yield to the urge to respond to him.

I think of "they will know we are Christians by our love" and wonder about some... </font>[/QUOTE]Helen, over the past two years you have repeatedly cast one insult after another at both me and at others who prefer an academic approach to the interpretation of the Bible and of science. And here you are again—casting another insult at me and accusing ME of being unloving. I have NEVER cast an insult at you; so I am curious, what do you mean by the word “love?”

Here is my understanding of the word,

1 Cor. 13:1. If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
4. Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5. does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6. does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7. bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8. Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10. but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
13. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. (NASB, 1995)

 

[Paul33]

Originally posted by Helen:
Why would Satan do that? Because it
1. makes murderers of the women, doctors, and nurses who participate
2. devalues life
3. tells God He doesn't know what He is doing when a conception happens.

Ain't that enough?

I thought of those things when I posted. But wouldn't Satan take a sure thing over a possibility. An abortion doctor can still repent. A mother who aborts her child can still repent. Voices can rise up to restore the sanctity of life. But a dead baby is a dead baby.

Why would Satan seek the destruction of billions of babies that ultimately go to heaven. In fact, the kindest act of any parent may very well be the abortion of his/her children so that they could be guaranteed a place in heaven, if your assumptions are correct.

 

[J.D.]

Paul 33: Your focus is wrong on this. The ultimate question is why would God allow the destruction of billions of babies, some of which may or may not go to heaven. Satan never has the final say on anything involving eternal decree. In actuallity, Satan is but the fool of God that accomplishes God's will as he strives to oppose it.

And this issue of babies in hell has been dealt with extensively in recent threads.

 

[Helen]

I have heard that argument and it amazes me that anyone would seriously consider that they would know better than God who should be alive and who shouldn't. Abortion is primarily about correcting what people feel are mistakes. If God is in charge of life, then they are insulting God, and making murderers out of people.

Will the people repent? Perhaps. Some have. But, in the meantime, look at the slippery slope abortion started. We now have the murder of newborns who are not up to par. I was asked by a psychiatrist once (no, I was not seeing one) if I had ever considered simply having my profoundly retarded son put to sleep. Euthenasia is common but not advertised. Here in Oregon we have the 'assisted suicide' law.

Satan got his foot in the door with abortion. He is now in the house and ransacking the place.

The fact that the babies go to heaven is, I am sure 'collateral damage' where Satan is concerned. What he has accomplished through abortion and 'women's rights' is total havoc in our culture.

 

[J.D.]

J.D., that master of the obvious, said: "And this issue of babies in hell has been dealt with extensively in recent threads."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I forgot that I was in the thread called "Babies in Hell".

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by J.D.:
Paul 33: Your focus is wrong on this. The ultimate question is why would God allow the destruction of billions of babies, some of which may or may not go to heaven. Satan never has the final say on anything involving eternal decree. In actuallity, Satan is but the fool of God that accomplishes God's will as he strives to oppose it.

God has allowed mankind to see the results of his own choices. If evil were not shown to be so entirely evil, repentance would come hard. As it is, the horrors that are surrounding us now are not just the results of people's choices, but are the means whereby thousands of others are recoiling in shock and taking a serious look at the God of the Bible.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Paul33:
But wouldn't Satan take a sure thing over a possibility. An abortion doctor can still repent. A mother who aborts her child can still repent. Voices can rise up to restore the sanctity of life. But a dead baby is a dead baby.

Why would Satan seek the destruction of billions of babies that ultimately go to heaven.

How would Satan know the babies go to heaven? He has no way of knowing that; maybe that's why God is not clear on it in the Bible.

Satan is not in hell since hell (lake of fire) has not been created yet. Satan is roaming the earth deceiving and before God accusing the brethren. He can't see who gets to be with Christ when they die.

 

[Helen]

I'm not sure about that, Marcia. Satan is no fool. He not only knows the Bible, but he is our accuser before the Father. If he still has access to the throne, which he does, is he then unaware of those who are also with the Father in heaven?

 

[J.D.]

Helen, it is my prayer and I'm sure yours that many, many more will finally recoil in horror at the sin of this world.

It could be that God has chosen to use the means of this great moral apostacy to awaken the world out it's spiritual sleep. Let's hope so.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by Marcia:
How would Satan know the babies go to heaven? He has no way of knowing that; maybe that's why God is not clear on it in the Bible.

The Bible does not tell us what Satan does or does not know. Therefore, I am curious—where did you get this information about Satan?

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Helen:
I'm not sure about that, Marcia. Satan is no fool. He not only knows the Bible, but he is our accuser before the Father. If he still has access to the throne, which he does, is he then unaware of those who are also with the Father in heaven?

I agree Satan knows a lot of things but I do not think he has access to everything. I asked myself the question you ask here, and it's just my view that God would not allow Satan to see who is in heaven. Why would God allow that? I sure don't want Satan to be looking at or having access to me when I'm in heaven!

It doesn't make sense to me that Satan would see who's in heaven just because he can go there and accuse believers. We don't know how much God allows Satan to see, but I'm sure it's not everything as he is not omniscient.

 

[Helen]

JD, we are seeing some of that happening here. Big burly truck drivers who want to come to Bible study. We'll be starting one for them. Some convicted (now on parole) sex offenders who want a place to go to church (we will be providing services for them and Bible studies). Students whose parents are atheists and they see where it leads...

some of the strangest people from some of the strangest backgrounds are almost literally showing up on our doorstep. We are getting involved with an outreach ministry and a store front operation that will look more like a cafe. We'll have tutoring for college and high school kids, Bible studies, fellowship groups, services. It will not be a Sunday only place. We're opening mid May and I'm really excited about it. The association is American Baptist, but the ministry itself is not going to be denominationally-tied, if that makes sense. We are wanting people who want the Lord to have a way to get to Him however and whenever we can help them. So many people are wanting the truth now...so many are wanting healing from the sorrow and death in the world.

Yes, God is using all of it. Romans 8:28.

 

[J.D.]

I would hate for this forum to turn into a love-fest

, but really, I will pray for your ministry. And don't ever take our doctrinal jousting to mean more than that, and never take it too personally when we're in opposition.

Now I think I'll log off or find something to argue about cause I can't stand all this gitten along!

 

[Paul33]

Originally posted by J.D.:
Paul 33: Your focus is wrong on this. The ultimate question is why would God allow the destruction of billions of babies, some of which may or may not go to heaven. Satan never has the final say on anything involving eternal decree. In actuallity, Satan is but the fool of God that accomplishes God's will as he strives to oppose it.

And this issue of babies in hell has been dealt with extensively in recent threads.

I don't think so J.D. Using your logic, I can ask, "Why does God allow the destruction of billions of people throughout the course of history?" Or, "Why does God allow the destruction of anyone?"

God created a good universe. Lucifer brought sin into the world.

People conceive. Satan tries to destroy what God creates. So, no, I'm not looking at this the wrong way.

 

[Paul33]

Originally posted by J.D.:
Paul 33: Your focus is wrong on this. The ultimate question is why would God allow the destruction of billions of babies, some of which may or may not go to heaven. Satan never has the final say on anything involving eternal decree. In actuallity, Satan is but the fool of God that accomplishes God's will as he strives to oppose it.

And this issue of babies in hell has been dealt with extensively in recent threads.

It is not God's will that any perish. Satan destroys lives. That's not God's will and never has been. But he does allow us to have a free will as apparently the angels had as well. As free moral agents we are responsible for our sin and bringing death into the world. Don't lay that at the door of God.

Otherwise, God really is the author of sin according to his "will."

 

[Paul33]

Originally posted by Helen:
I have heard that argument and it amazes me that anyone would seriously consider that they would know better than God who should be alive and who shouldn't. Abortion is primarily about correcting what people feel are mistakes. If God is in charge of life, then they are insulting God, and making murderers out of people.

Will the people repent? Perhaps. Some have. But, in the meantime, look at the slippery slope abortion started. We now have the murder of newborns who are not up to par. I was asked by a psychiatrist once (no, I was not seeing one) if I had ever considered simply having my profoundly retarded son put to sleep. Euthenasia is common but not advertised. Here in Oregon we have the 'assisted suicide' law.

Satan got his foot in the door with abortion. He is now in the house and ransacking the place.

The fact that the babies go to heaven is, I am sure 'collateral damage' where Satan is concerned. What he has accomplished through abortion and 'women's rights' is total havoc in our culture.

Satan got his foot in the door with "birth control." The slippery slope of eugenics led to Hitler's holocaust.

Birth control leads to abortion leads to euthanasia leads to infanticide.

 

[Paul33]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Paul33:
But wouldn't Satan take a sure thing over a possibility. An abortion doctor can still repent. A mother who aborts her child can still repent. Voices can rise up to restore the sanctity of life. But a dead baby is a dead baby.

Why would Satan seek the destruction of billions of babies that ultimately go to heaven.

How would Satan know the babies go to heaven? He has no way of knowing that; maybe that's why God is not clear on it in the Bible.

Satan is not in hell since hell (lake of fire) has not been created yet. Satan is roaming the earth deceiving and before God accusing the brethren. He can't see who gets to be with Christ when they die. </font>[/QUOTE]Marcia, that was an interesting answer.

If Satan doesn't know if babies go to heaven when they die, then maybe we don't know either.

I don't know what happens to all babies when they die. Some appear to go to heaven (David's son, believers' children), others may not.

But I know that God knows from before the foundation of the earth those who are his in Christ. That is enough for me.

Therefore, I seek to share the good news with others, support what is God-given and good, and oppose that which is contrary to God's created order (birth control?, abortion!).