Baby shower for an unwed mother

[Thinkingstuff]

Because not everything God decides to allow is good or worthy of celebration.

For instance, God, in His sovereignty, decided that 3,000 people should die on 9/11. Now, we can acknowledge God's sovereignty over that act and we can even praise Him for His sovereignty, even if we do not understand His purposes, but the deaths of 3,000 people is not something that we celebrate.

There is a big difference for celebrating life and celebrating death. You know what catagories I place people in.

 

[matt wade]

I place those who would not forgive and exclude a repentant woman in this circumstance into the same catagory as the Pharasees. Or the men who gathered the stones to cast at the woman caught in adultery (interestingly enough the man wasn't there either), or those who will not look out for widows and orphans, or those to whom the Lord said "get thee from me. I never Knew you" and further says "When I was hungry you gave me naught to eat, when I was in prison, you didn't visit me...for when you do not do this to the least of these my bretheren you haven't done it to me" (paraphrased). So there.

First, I never said I wouldn't forgive the woman. Actually, I probably wouldn't forgive the woman, as it isn't my place to forgive her. She wouldn't have sinned against me. It's God that should (and will!) forgive her.

Second, you an an extreme hypocrite. You are angered that I would not have a shower for this woman because you say I wouldn't forgive her, yet you then judge me and claim that I'm not saved! Who are you to say that the Lord will say He never knew me?

Why don't you try to do as your name says and think before you post instead of posting this drivel. I'll forgive you this time for questioning my salvation, but next time I'll report you to the mods .

 

[matt wade]

Because not everything God decides to allow is good or worthy of celebration.

For instance, God, in His sovereignty, decided that 3,000 people should die on 9/11. Now, we can acknowledge God's sovereignty over that act and we can even praise Him for His sovereignty, even if we do not understand His purposes, but the deaths of 3,000 people is not something that we celebrate.

Excellent point! You illustrated this much better than I was going to, so I'll just let you words speak for me .

 

[JohnDeereFan]

There is a big difference for celebrating life and celebrating death. You know what catagories I place people in.

But we can celebrate life without celebrating the conditions by which that life came about.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

But we can celebrate life without celebrating the conditions by which that life came about.

you can celebrate life without condoning sin. Sure. It's when you don't celebrate life because of the sin. Man sinned and all (save enoch and elijah) have died because of it. But God did a greater thing the incarnation, ressurection. Do we not celebrate easter because its a direct result of our sin? ie If Adam never sinned we would never have needed redemption. Easter is a glaring identifier of our sin. So lets not celebrate it because it celebrates our sin? Fah! Its the same reasoning I see here against having a shower for this repentant mother.

 

[corndogggy]

Slightly off topic, but if the girl doesn't know who the father is, would you even allow that child to come to church? Deuteronomy tells us not to, down to the 10th generation after him. Where does it say that this rule is now null and void?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

you can celebrate life without condoning sin. Sure. It's when you don't celebrate life because of the sin.

Then celebrate the life in a way that doesn't appear to condone the sin.

Do we not celebrate easter because its a direct result of our sin?

No, we celebrate Easter because it's the day Christ was resurrected.

Its the same reasoning I see here against having a shower for this repentant mother.

Look, I don't really care what you do in your church. By her a copy of The Shack, while you're at it.

But to hold a shower is not appropriate and we're not doing it.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Slightly off topic, but if the girl doesn't know who the father is, would you even allow that child to come to church? Deuteronomy tells us not to, down to the 10th generation after him. Where does it say that this rule is now null and void?

Hebrews. It's called the New Covenant.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Slightly off topic, but if the girl doesn't know who the father is, would you even allow that child to come to church? Deuteronomy tells us not to, down to the 10th generation after him. Where does it say that this rule is now null and void?

First of all were talking about a repentant girl. 2nd of all following your same logic the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts never stood a chance of being saved or in the assembly of believers.

1 No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the LORD.

Yet this is what we get in acts.

36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"[f] 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

 

[DHK]

Slightly off topic, but if the girl doesn't know who the father is, would you even allow that child to come to church? Deuteronomy tells us not to, down to the 10th generation after him. Where does it say that this rule is now null and void?

Christ fulfilled the law at the cross. If you want to be consistent with those laws then:
1. you should be stoned if you pick up sticks (use fuel) on any given Saturday--even in winter.
2. It would be against the law to wear "mixed" clothing. One must wear all linen, all wool, etc. No polyester/cotton mixes; not one type of clothing for the shirt and another for either pant or shirt--but all 100% the same from top to bottom.
3. Your diet would be strictly according to the Jewish diet--no pork products, etc.
4. and so many other restrictions, some of which would be impossible for you to keep.
--These are Jewish laws, which Christ has fulfilled at the cross. Furthermore we are not Jews.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Then celebrate the life in a way that doesn't appear to condone the sin.



No, we celebrate Easter because it's the day Christ was resurrected.



Look, I don't really care what you do in your church. By her a copy of The Shack, while you're at it.

But to hold a shower is not appropriate and we're not doing it.

I could see if we were discussing someone unrepentant but we're not. So no one at your church would drop the stones in this story?

3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

 

[corndogggy]

As for "celebrating the sin", flip it around... if a normal married couple were about to have a child, if you threw the woman a shower, would you be celebrating the act of her having sex with her husband? If not, then why would you be celebrating the sin of sex out of wedlock if she was unmarried?

 

[matt wade]

As for "celebrating the sin", flip it around... if a normal married couple were about to have a child, if you threw the woman a shower, would you be celebrating the act of her having sex with her husband? If not, then why would you be celebrating the sin of sex out of wedlock if she was unmarried?

With a married couple to woman becames with child through God's Grace and through His prescribed methods. That is something to celebrate. Becoming with child out of God's prescribed methods is not something to celebrate.

 

[webdog]

As for "celebrating the sin", flip it around... if a normal married couple were about to have a child, if you threw the woman a shower, would you be celebrating the act of her having sex with her husband? If not, then why would you be celebrating the sin of sex out of wedlock if she was unmarried?

Stop...common sense is not allowed in this discussion

 

[webdog]

With a married couple to woman becames with child through God's Grace and through His prescribed methods. That is something to celebrate. Becoming with child out of God's prescribed methods is not something to celebrate.

So a shower for a married pregnant woman is the celebration of the sex she and her husband had?

 

[Amy.G]

Here's a novel idea. How about the church not giving showers for anyone? Why not leave the shower giving up to the friends and family of the showeree and leave the church out of it? The church can still give a gift of needed items to an unwed mother if she needs anything. This would be sharing God's love without any chance of it seeming like sin was being celebrated. Just a thought.

 

[matt wade]

So a shower for a married pregnant woman is the celebration of the sex she and her husband had?

I guess you are having a hard time reading today. Let me post it for you again:

With a married couple to woman becames with child through God's Grace and through His prescribed methods. That is something to celebrate.

Celebrating that someone is with child and that they became with way through God's prescribed methods, i.e. sex within marriage.

If you want to say that we should celebrate any person that becomes with child or obtains a child, then certainly you think we should celebrate when a woman is raped or a homosexual couple adopts a child or, heck, even if someone abducts a child. Doesn't the child abductor need essential supplies?!

 

[matt wade]

Here's a novel idea. How about the church not giving showers for anyone? Why not leave the shower giving up to the friends and family of the showeree and leave the church out of it? The church can still give a gift of needed items to an unwed mother if she needs anything. This would be sharing God's love without any chance of it seeming like sin was being celebrated. Just a thought.

Actually this is my preference . I don't think we need to have showers, birthday parties, anniversary parties, or any of that as a church sanctuned event.

 

[corndogggy]

With a married couple to woman becames with child through God's Grace and through His prescribed methods. That is something to celebrate.

If that is what we are celebrating, why wait towards the end of the pregnancy? Why not just celebrate it as soon as everybody knows instead of waiting for months? We don't do that because that's not what we're celebrating.

 

[matt wade]

If that is what we are celebrating, why wait towards the end of the pregnancy? Why not just celebrate it as soon as everybody knows instead of waiting for months? We don't do that because that's not what we're celebrating.

People have baby showers at all different times throughout the pregnancy. I've seen them happen at 4 months and I've seen them happen at 9 months. I've seen them happen after birth. Maybe you don't do that, but plenty of people do.