Baptism and obedience

So you think of yourself as a pimp? That is afterall what a panderer is.

Your pandering showed the whole bbs that you are not capable of owning up to your own misspeak and doublespeak!

 

Usually I ignore remarks like this one, but let me say this. First, I was being a little sarcastic about being in tears. There is no way that any Catholic could bring me to tears or convict my conscience. They would have to have more truth in God's word before being able to do such. Understand?

IMO, the CC is in love with the CC, not God. You all remind me of a bunch that protects this *giant pulsating egg* and dares anyone to touch it. You want a break?....get real and come down to Earth and learn what the Bible really says and get true salvation, from the scriptures, and not a secondary book that teaches you what the Bible means.

Sorry board, this really got to me this morning.

Now, back to ignoring your remarks and feeling much better.

MEE

 

IMO, the CC is in love with the CC, not God.

But, the reason I have such a love for the Church is because she is the Bride of the Bridegroom. If my Saviour is glad enough to spill his blood for her, I shall regard her with the same esteem.

get real and come down to Earth and learn what the Bible really says and get true salvation, from the scriptures, and not a secondary book that teaches you what the Bible means.

Thank you for the suggestion. I have been doing this for quite some time now.

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" (St. Paul, Ephesians 5:25).

"As regards ‘Catholic’ ... in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations ... What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church" (J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines 190–1).

 

You have the last word, even though it is wrong

 

"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" (St.
Paul, Ephesians 5:25)

Actually the KJV says Christ gave himself up for IT .....not Her!!

Does the RCC change the bible to fit their needs?

That's an encouraging scripture when applied to all of mankind. To think that
He was only speaking to the Catholic Church, makes him a liar when we know
that scripture also says "For God so loved the WORLD that He gave His
only Begotten Son...........................etc. !!

Seems like the "church'' and the ''world'' are the same thing.

[ June 01, 2003, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Singer ]

 

Actually the KJV says Christ gave himself up for IT

The extant Greek manuscript uses the pronoun with the following morphology: personal, third person, feminine, singular, genitive. That is, according to my Nestle-Arland 26th Edition.

The reason Paul refers to the Church with the pronoun her is due to the bridal nature of the Church. Of course, the Church as an entity is not sexual; likewise, there is no gender in the Godhead even though we refer to the first person of the Blessed Trinity as "Father". These genitive descriptions are purely elaborative and lie on the level of analogy.

Does the RCC change the bible to fit their needs?

That is an unnecessary conclusion. Various translations - trying to be faithful to the same text - will translate various words differently.

This is why accessing the original language is important, so that we can analyze what has been translated. In this instance, the RSV's translation of "she" is more precise than the KJV's translation of "it".

That's an encouraging scripture when applied to all of mankind.

Is all of mankind the bride of Christ? So much for the doctrine of hell..

Christ died for all men, but only those men for whom the benefits of the redemption are applied will be saved. Visibly, this Church of Christ is made manifest in the Catholic Church. It is Catholic doctrine that those who are saved that are not visible members of the Catholic Church at this period in time are indeed saved through an imperfect and partial union with the Church invisibly.

This should help solve the distortion being spread concerning salvation and the Church.

 

It is Catholic doctrine that those who are saved that are not visible
members of the Catholic Church at this period in time are indeed saved
through an imperfect and partial union with the Church invisibly.

Carson, by your words, I have to accept that you agree to the salvation
of non-Catholics although you consider us imperfect (but saved because of
our partial affiliation with the Catholic Church).

By our own consideration, we are Also saved, as you admit (but saved
regardless of our non-afilliation with the Catholic Church).

Saved is Saved, isn't it ?
I see no benefit to joining something that will not enhance my salvation; and
there is no scripture to support my doing so. If it were so, then it would be
salvation by works.

Salvation cannot be enhanced, it can only be accepted.

 

Assuming that this is true that salvation is through the church, (though it is not possible). The Holy God would rather use other church which is not so corrupt, so idolatrous and so abominable like the Catholic church. Pardon for the description but this is what i see considering the History. I do not hate the Catholics but i love them enough to tell them the truth.

 

Well said, Faithcontender, I'd also think that a perfect God who is offering
a perfect way to eternal life would also offer a perfect way to get
there.

..............................and He did !!

HE is the Way, the truth and the life.

(With or without the Catholic Church); for those were His comments when He
offered the complete plan of salvation which took place long before the RCC
had its founding. I should say it took place maybe four thousand years prior
to the RCC because the plan of salvation WAS from the beginning.

This conflicts with the RCC version that Catholicism was the purpose of creation
and the plan of salvation. With that claim, why does Catholicism even need a
savior (Jesus) to complete its work..!!

 

Carson, by your words, I have to accept that you agree to the salvation of non-Catholics

The Church teaches that non-Catholics may be saved; this isn't a new revelation just given to you by my words. We have been repeating this truth over and over and over again on this board. The question is, "Are you listening"? I assume that this time, you have. Hopefully, from this point forward, you won't revert to the false assertion that Catholics believe all non-Catholics will not be saved.

although you consider us imperfect

No, the imperfection which I speak of does not lie within your subject. It lies within your communion with Christ's Church. Your communion is imperfect. This is quite obvious.

Are you a full-fledged practicing member of the Catholic Church? Do you submit to the dogma of the Church? Do you hold to the Catholic faith? Do you hold to Catholic moral teaching? Do you receive the sacrament of unity from the Lord's table within the Catholic Church, the Eucharist?

If not, then it is quite obvious that you are in imperfect communion with the Catholic Church. This isn't a point to be disputed; the point of contention lies within whether the Church of Christ subsists in any one visible body (remember, the Church is a body, not a soul) on earth.

Saved is Saved, isn't it?

You're confusing terms. Communion with the Church is not to be equated with Salvation. A Protestant who holds an imperfect communion with Christ's Church can achieve far greater holiness than the nominal Catholic, and his/her salvation will be far superior to that of the lax Catholic.

I see no benefit to joining something that will not enhance my salvation

I wouldn't either.

Salvation cannot be enhanced, it can only be accepted.

That depends on what you mean when you say "salvation". If you mean "justification", then I agree. If you mean "sanctification", then I both agree and disagree - for our holiness is not our own work, yet we must work.

This is the glorious paradox Saint Paul sets forth:

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil 2:12b-13).

The principle of this work is not of your own doing, for it is of the New Law, the Holy Spirit. Yet, the subject within which the principle operates will always be you, and it will always involve the operation of your free will.